We must be living in extraordinarily good times, times without war, disease or poverty. Times when all the more serious problems have been solved, and we can finally raise the things we find offensive from mere annoyances to urgent ethical and political issues.

I have nothing really to say - I just wanted the opportunity to post in the same thread with so many of all the names I have been reading here for many months, and say how much I continue to enjoy all the coffee (and non-coffee) talk. Plus I think it's the first time I've seen another_jim use one of the smilie thingys.

I hope you've seen our better side too.

Americans are FUNNY! Personally, I would never have picked the original logo as being anything other than a cup with a star. I've drunk coffee in a cafe with swastikas in a frieze on the outside and half a dozen Israeli backpackers on the inside, but that was in Thailand, where it's a good luck symbol. It didn't seem to bother any of us.

On the other hand, if I get "attitude" after a polite question to a barista, I usually ask for a quick word with the manager. I'm not a fan of fruity, acidic espresso blends as straight espressos, but recognise that it may be the only blend available. They do tend to work well with milk. Even if I'm not enamored of the taste, it's still possible to judge the quality of the shot in terms of volume, crema density and mouthfeel.

I suppose my point is that effective cafe reviews tend to concentrate on internal ambience, cleanliness, service and most importantly coffee quality. They don't try to push the reviewers "feelings" about logos, location, weather on the day etc.

Disclaimer: I buy green from Cuba, and still can't work out the reasoning behind the "embargo" other than it must be profitable for someone in the USA to maintain it. I was told it meant I was supporting communism, but my response with WalMart and China in a single sentence was met with silence. I hope it continues though, as the coffee is hard enough to get hold of already without competing with USA buyers.


Alan

another_jim wrote:We must be living in extraordinarily good times, times without war, disease or poverty. Times when all the more serious problems have been solved, and we can finally raise the things we find offensive from mere annoyances to urgent ethical and political issues.

Jim, your point is well taken. A little bit of a greater perspective always helps, but it ignores the fact that we are at one and the same time a principled and visceral people, regardless of what the principles are. And for some, certain associations carry much more baggage than they do for others (OP is a pretty good example). Thats all. Again, nobody is talking about banning, or anything of the like. Boycotting has always been a pacifier for those whose principles are troubled. There is nothing sillier about this than a business putting Hitler on its wall.

The larger issue here, if there is one, is that capitalism always works out these issues, if they are indeed issues. It is a fairly obvious fact that nice coffee houses are disproportionately popular with the cool college crowd, and as such, the industry in general can be expected to comfortably embrace certain political and social issues, as it usually is pleasing to their customer base. But as the specialty coffee shops stretch their presence further, issues raised in this thread will come to a head. What flies in urban areas, and in college towns will not work for shops in suburban middle America. Businesses that want to thrive will adjust as needed. I suspect that, ultimately, Ritual's logo, Intelligentsia's name, and the ambiance in many of the cafes is simply capitalism working as it should - business adjusting to its environment (clientèle) to increase sales.

noah wrote:I suspect that, ultimately, Ritual's logo, Intelligentsia's name, and the ambiance in many of the cafes is simply capitalism working as it should - business adjusting to its environment (clientèle) to increase sales.

Ritual's logo isn't a nice no-frills clean logo, it's a direct adaptation of the USSR flag specifically designed to attract cool college hipsters (who are of course all communists) which couldn't even walk before the USSR collapsed.

Excellent reasoning.

Wow, I think your reactions are even more over the top than the OP's were! Yes, businesses cater to their locations. Cities and college towns are hot-spots for less-than-conservative politics, this is indisputable and statistically confirmed in almost every election cycle and by voter registration statistics (if you really need confirmation). Rural and suburban areas are far more conservative and cosmopolitan, respectively. The big (I mean big quality) coffee houses are almost always found in urban areas. Therefore...

Its just business.

noah wrote:Wow, I think your reactions are even more over the top than the OP's were!

Trimming the excess of your posts and paraphrasing the core message is an over the top reaction?

Also, you don't need to post your reasoning again. It's flawed, no matter how many times you repeat it.
-less-than-conservative doesn't mean they have stalinist sympathies.
-the hipster crowd couldn't walk when the USSR collapsed and as such don't make the association between the logo and the flag. I didn't at least. I only noticed a bit of similarity after reading the OP, and i still think the association is far-fetched and based on paranoia more than anything else.

I think that you assume college kids are far dumber than I do. I am quite certain that they are capable of recognizing a symbol that officially went out of usage before they could walk. Hitler was dead before I was born, does that mean I, or those in my age bracket wouldn't be able to recognize a swastika, or know its significance? Please.

As for this:

Bluecold wrote:-less-than-conservative doesn't mean they have stalinist sympathies.

I agree. But you made that leap, not me, and that was what I referred to as over the top.

noah wrote:I agree. But you made that leap, not me, and that was what I referred to as over the top.

Nobody made the leap but you. Don't pull this sh** on me. You say Ritual designed their logo to look like the USSR flag to attract the communist cool college kids.

I think that you assume college kids are far dumber than I do. I am quite certain that they are capable of recognizing a symbol that officially went out of usage before they could walk. Hitler was dead before I was born, does that mean I, or those in my age bracket wouldn't be able to recognize a swastika, or know its significance?

I recognize a swastika as i recognize the USSR flag. I'm 19 years old. I think i fall under the category "college hipster demographic". I'm just not paranoid enough (and i'm sure a lot of people with me) to see the gulag archipel in the logo of Ritual coffee.