psyd wrote:
"I'd like a decaf doppio, please, and a half-a pound of the espresso blend." (long story, but I'm one of the guys who won't quit just because he's hit his personal caffeine limits!) "Uhm, what?" "Double espresso, decaf." "Uhm, ok..."
"How long ago was the espresso blend roasted?"
"Uh, well, I guess about and hour ago"
"Nice, I guess that is fresh roasted"
"So, what's the blend on the espresso beans?" "Uhm, it's a drink made with blended ice." (they call their frappe-like cold drinks 'Blends')
"Uhm, no, I mean what beans are used to make up the espresso blend"
"I think it's French Roast"
"You French roast your espresso blend?"
"No, I mean, I don't know...it's, uhm, er... roasted." At this point there are so many red flags I'm starting to feel like an unruly bull in Madrid.
"You own a coffee-shop, hunh?!?"

I think I broke her, 'cause she moved back home. In other news, though, it seems that the roaster knows what he's doing, his partner (wife? Girlfriend?) and he are both knowledgeable and friendly, and they're actual coffee people. Shame about the girl, she did have some skills, and the rest coulda come easily...

Well, time to chime in. It is rare that I get a better espresso at a cafe than I make at home. And this includes several trips to Seattle, and elsewhere in the "States", in addition to Juneau, Alaska, where, admittedly, choices are limited. And I have had some skilled baristas make me espresso in Seattle.

Some random grinds for the knockbox:

Dan and a few others at HB have contributed substantially to improving home espresso in this country. I've seldom seen these forums anything less than constructive, largely because of good moderators.

I think part of the problem is we tend to get good at making the kind of drink we like, so its difficult for an average barista to hit that target.

I'll also agree with Jim that lowering expectations is key (to both coffee and most other important things in life) - enjoy cafe experience for what it is, and be pleasantly surprised if the coffee tastes good.

If its in a paper cup it automatically sucks. It probably still has caffeine in it, but cocca, sugar, and whipped cream may be required.

Sorry Dan, espresso does not come with a money-back guarantee. Let the buyer beware.

Cafe and coffee, although they may mean the same thing in different languages, are not equal - just because a business owner puts an espresso machine in his/her shop, it does not mean that they have any interest in making good espresso. A good cafe is a place to meet, read, talk, discuss political subversion, etc. Good coffee is just good coffee.

And this reminds me of a point I've tried to make when people ask advice on HB about how to get into espresso making. It takes very little to raise the bar above the average cafe. In my opinion the average HB member has gotten so good at brewing home espresso that they've forgotten just how much of an improvement a cheap pump machine is compared to a bad cafe espresso in a paper cup.


PC

peacecup wrote:Some random grinds for the knockbox:
its difficult for an average barista to hit that target.

I'm pretty tolerant. All I ask is that it doesn't suck. The decaf that I got wasn't what I could pull, but it showed that someone had given her some instruction with the machine. It was perfectly acceptable, and just needed a bit of sugar, which I applied, and enjoyed the drink.

peacecup wrote: If its in a paper cup it automatically sucks.

Sometimes the best thing about espresso is that I can call up a barista when I haven't time to sit and enjoy a cup, but want to have one none the less, and can swing in, throw some cash on the bar, grab my 'to go' cup and dash of to an early call. Most of 'em would trust me with their porcelain, but why bother? I can get really good shots that come in a paper cup...

peacecup wrote: just because a business owner puts an espresso machine in his/her shop, it does not mean that they have any interest in making good espresso.

While true, it shouldn't be. It takes so little to make decent coffee that they shouldn't be putting nearly that effort into making something that is horrible. If I go to a business that makes some or part of their money providing a service or a product, it really isn't that unreasonable to expect the product or service to meet some minimal industry standards of quality. There are very few areas of any commercial venture where the entrepreneur could get into an enterprise with the expectation that they haven't the need to understand the workings of the enterprise they're getting into. Kinda reminds me of the joke, "What's the difference between a viola player and a chainsaw? If you see someone carrying a chainsaw, you have a reasonable expectation that they know how to cut a tree down."

peacecup wrote: And this reminds me of a point I've tried to make when people ask advice on HB about how to get into espresso making. It takes very little to raise the bar above the average cafe.

This is what we're talking about. This is not a good thing. This is a bad thing. What we're discussing is how we can make it better. Learning to drink swill or abstaining aren't my two favorite solutions. Either you start to try to make the world a better place, or you accept something less than mediocrity. I'll choose the former, given a choice.

It ain't even worth two cents, but make of it what you will.

Not aimed at anyone, but generally, I feel like ranting a bit... Just a bit...

I have tried to make the coffee word a better place- that is, to turn people on to the difference between bad and good coffee. How? I give away a lot of fresh, home roasted coffee... Probaly in the area of 15 or 20 pounds a year, about a half pound at a time. Some of it is decent blends of SO of good quality stuff- all Arabica. Some is just sweep. Still, the universal response is that it is the best coffee they have ever tasted. Some of these folks have been all over the world. Others not so much. That's strike one against the "coffee establishment." And anyone who will listen I talk about coffee- how to find good coffee, what it should look like after roasting, how to find fresh, why fresh is important, and all that I can think of as long as they are attentive.

I have tried to talk to coffee shop folks about their coffee, but if you get proverbially slapped in the face a few times you get a bit gun shy. I once watched as a customer returned to complain that his ten or twelve ounce latte/choco/thingy drink was bitter and needed sugar to be drinkable. Instead of offering the customer a new drink the shop OWNER told him he had ordered the wrong drink. I was sitting at a table, drinking a cappa at the time and it was indeed quite bad- bitter and generally a lot nastier than just about anything I had ever made at home with a Silvia and a Rocky. It was the last time I went in there. On a previous visit when I had ordered a mocha smoothie on a hot summer day that a mocha was not coffee and chocolate. "What is it then?" I asked. I was told, "I don't know, but it isn't chocolate and coffee." And it was in a very condescending tone as well.

A line I used years ago (that I now see as a sig here, not that I am claiming it as my creation) is "life's too short to drink bad coffee." So why do people do it? I partly blame the Starbucks reality. I dislike Starbucks not so much for their bad coffee but for the opportunity they had to educate the American public as to what good coffee really could be. Instead they went off on the MacDonalds model, and spent their efforts to make as much money as possible selling unhealthy drinks. They could have made good coffee and a ton of cash as well, but that was the choice they made. Sad, really.

Ask just about anyone who is not an enthusiast about espresso and they will tell you that is is really strong, and bitter coffee. Where do they get such ideas? Through mis-education and bad coffee. When a home coffee enthusiast can enjoy really great coffee, every time, for an equipment investment of around $450 (off the top of my head let's say a Baratza Virtuoso, a Hearthware iRoast2, and an Aeropress), or even quite a bit less why can't coffee shops all over th country do the same with their commercial equipment? because they don't really know or care. Why? They don't have to. Why? Because the customers don't care. How do I know? Go to a city at around 6am to 8am and look at the lines at a Starbucks. To say the customers do not care is not as accurate as saying that they don't know. it doesn't matter- the lines form just the same.

On the other hand, to think that all coffee shops will or can be taught to make good coffee is unrealistic- as much so as thinking that you will be able to get a great steak, properly cooked at MacDonalds. There is mainstream and there is gourmet. Many of the former and few of the latter. It will always be so.

As far as trying to educate shop owners. it's a noble effort, and one worth undertaking, but they receive plenty of leads to do so- I have to assume that they receive plenty of trade journals and emails urging them to take training courses, join SCAA, etc. Any effort we make is a drop of water in the cup, but you never know. Maybe reaching one will help keep one from going out of business. Maybe not. The shop owner I mentioned earlier? He's gone and so is the shop.

Randy G. wrote:As far as trying to educate shop owners. it's a noble effort, and one worth undertaking, but they receive plenty of leads to do so- I have to assume that they receive plenty of trade journals and emails urging them to take training courses, join SCAA, etc. Any effort we make is a drop of water in the cup, but you never know. Maybe reaching one will help keep one from going out of business. Maybe not. The shop owner I mentioned earlier? He's gone and so is the shop.

This reflects an odd discussion going on at coffeed about why the SCAA doesn't do public promotions for specialty coffee. The short answer is that most members won't pay for it, since their coffee isn't very special. The discussion is odd since it's SCAA officials and cafe owners doing the discussing.

Randy G. wrote:Not aimed at anyone, but generally, I feel like ranting a bit... Just a bit...

Goat head! We can take it, 's'why we're here!

Randy G. wrote:On the other hand, to think that all coffee shops will or can be taught to make good coffee is unrealistic- as much so as thinking that you will be able to get a great steak, properly cooked at MacDonalds.

Yahbut, if you go to a place that has an espresso or coffee themed name, and the thing that gets your eye when you walk through the door is the beautiful huge espresso machine, set there to catch your eye, shouldn't you have a reasonable expectation of some sort of quality from the cup? I mean, if you go to a gelato shop or an Italian restaurant and they happen to have an espresso machine, that's one thing, but if you go to a coffee shop?
If you go to Morton's, and the steak sucks, or is charbroiled to a crunchy consistency, you should send it back, right? And if the waiter or the chef give you a rash for sending it back, you should have the right to bad mouth 'em, right? I mean, it's kind of a duty to your steak-loving friends to warn them that this place will cook the steak poorly, and blame you if you don't like it.

Randy G. wrote:As far as trying to educate shop owners. it's a noble effort, and one worth undertaking, but they receive plenty of leads to do so- I have to assume that they receive plenty of trade journals and emails urging them to take training courses, join SCAA, etc. Any effort we make is a drop of water in the cup

This is why I go straight to the barista. Once they know that what they've been told is crap, they can work their magic on their drinks, and help the owner turn it around. They will at least start doing what they can to make the coffee better. IF the owner cares at all, he'll be pleased that the employee is trying to make an effort, if not, he won't be around anyhoo, and when the employee goes looking for another barista gig, he'll be looking for someplace he can do good. Yeah, it might not work, but it is the channel that stands a chance...

another_jim wrote:This reflects an odd discussion going on at coffeed about why the SCAA doesn't do public promotions for specialty coffee. The short answer is that most members won't pay for it, since their coffee isn't very special. The discussion is odd since it's SCAA officials and cafe owners doing the discussing.

http://forum.coffeed.com/viewtopic.php?t=1409

I stopped reading it once the posts started passing the 4 paragraph per post mark.

It's a long read, so get comfortable and brew up a 6-cup press before gettting started. Bring a brown-bag lunch while you're at it.

OTOH sometimes you can be pleasantly surprised in possibly unexpected places. This evening we went out for dinner and a movie. After dinner had a bit of time to kill so Debi wanted to stop by Pete's to pick-up some Mango Tea for iced tea. Often online Pete's gets lumped with Charbucks quality wise. The pleasant clerk informed us that type/level of purchase entitled us to a free cup of coffee. Debi said she's was too stuffed from dinner and didn't care for any right now, I on the other hand had had a short night's sleep so thought what the heck and asked if it could be a straight shot. He replied sure and asked if any particular way you'd like it? I replied just double shot normale pulled around 22 to 28 seconds would be fine. No problem was the reply. Of course I already knew Pete's had the equipment to produce quality shots, LM Swift Grinder and LM machine. He wasn't the barista, turned to her as she asked any special request. I replied just ceramic not paper cup please. She no problem and proceeded. Now the blend is roasted darker than I prefer though not extremely dark, a good Vienna so remained open minded to the potential since also know if pulled properly can be a quite nice shot. She handed me the cup, beautiful deep but not too dark thick crema with no hints of blonding and said as much as I took the cup. Inhaled deeply and commented on the nice fragrance. Swirled it a bit more and watched the crema persist as I took a sip. Temp about spot on for the blend, no hint of bitter or sour. Nice deep, rich and smooth taste. She asked how it was and I complimented her on the pull. After my second sip also commented their roast was a bit darker than I preferred and added that the shot was very good. She asked why lighter roast so I replied because a bit lighter brings out more varietal character of the various beans in the blend as opposed to roast notes. Did not say it in a condescending way and no one was offended. I also mentioned nothing wrong with a their darker roast for espresso just a different style. While the shot was on the house I did of course leave a deserved tip.

This was only the second time I've had a shot from Pete's. The other time was while traveling in California a couple years ago, forget where exactly but on the way back from Fort Bragg. It was also pulled well and that time Debi also had a right nice cappuccino.

Update... I was in a nearby store and decided to stop for a snack at "It's a Grind." The place was hopping with almost all the tables taken inside and outside in the adjoining courtyard. I may complain about the state of espresso in our town, but there were lots of happy customers enjoying beverages and snacks. Their selection of pastries was good, the staff was super polite, even offering to warm up the muffin I ordered.

While I can't recommend them for espresso aficionados, the rest of the menu selections looked appealing and the atmosphere was inviting. My wife's been there a couple times and noted it's also been busy, though she prefers the chai lattes at Panera Bread.

A long forgotten update prompted by the thread Why are cafes crap?

Bad news: The only decent cafe within 10 miles of my house, Pheasant Creek Coffee, closed last year. It was a victim of the 3 L's (location, location, location). Geoff Corey has moved back into the information technology business; last I heard (?), he was working at a startup specializing in video marketing.

Good news: Crema Coffee, a mere 2 miles from my house, has turned out to be a diamond in the rough. If you want a top-notch cappuccino, look for Kevin (owner) behind the bar, though the rest of the staff are nearly as skilled. He's also sourced a few surprise coffees. Their hours are daytime-only and very short on the weekends.

More good news: Master baker extraordinaire Lionel Vatinet more than doubled the size of the La Farm Bakery in Cary, adding a large cafe with full espresso bar and service for breakfast. They've only been open a short while, but if their espresso is only half as good as their baked goods, that would be fantastic. It was closed when I passed by at 7PM, however the sign said La Mousse serves Counter Culture Coffee and I saw a two-group La Marzocco. There is hope for two cafes serving good espresso less than 5 miles from my house, woohoo!