"Hey Dude! What grinder are you using?"

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WSH
Posts: 291
Joined: 11 years ago

#1: Post by WSH »

And here's a typical exchange between me and the barista at some of Portland and Olympia's more famous Coffee bars after asking that question. "Uh?....... I think it's a La Marzocco or something......!" Well I say, " it says Mazzer on the back. Maybe it's a Major or possibly a Kony"? ........... "Oh, yeah, maybe. I don't really know".

I find that stunning but, maybe I shouldn't. And it's happened at EVERY place I've been to. EVERY ONE, of I'm guessing a dozen different places. Most of the shots have been acceptable, to good, even great but, start prodding for particulars other than say dose weight and it goes downhill, and quickly. Amazing! "What origin beans are in your Espresso blend"? Again, "uh?.......I'm not sure"! What? Your not sure? Really? Oh sure they can go on and on about "juicy", "this note and that" and being "berry-lishous" but ask'em about anything specific and they quickly look away and start kicking the ground.

Folks these people aren't acting, trying to hide some secret. They simply don't know, or apparently, much less care. Again, I find that to be stunning. And I mean all the big name Roasters, Espresso Bars in Portland and Olympia. And it doesn't stop there. I've even been to a few little hole in the wall places, owned by friends and former co-workers of the baristas still working in the bigger bars that they recommended and who have been in the trade for years, decades. Same puzzling wrong answer. Maybe I'm expecting too much I guess.

AlexKilpatrick
Posts: 116
Joined: 11 years ago

#2: Post by AlexKilpatrick »

I don't know how much a barista makes, but I bet that even in a high-end place they don't make a lot more than minimum wage. At that level you MAY find someone passionate about their work, but I think it is unrealistic to expect them to be as passionate as someone here is about coffee. It is just a job to them.

Do they really need to know what kind of grinder they are using? It isn't like they can pick a different one. The owner probably didn't consult them about which grinder they like. It is just the grinder that is there. Similar with the beans. They use whatever the owner buys.

To add to this, I bet 99% of the people who go into a specialty coffee shop don't even care much about coffee either. I once stood behind a woman in a super-indie coffee shop in Austin that was plastered with anti-Starbucks posters everywhere. This woman was talking to someone on her cell phone quite loudly, telling her friend to meet her at the "Starbucks" at the location we were at. To some people all coffee shops are Starbucks.

Even if you have a few customers that are really into coffee, it is probably hard to run your business to please that minority.

WSH (original poster)
Posts: 291
Joined: 11 years ago

#3: Post by WSH (original poster) »

Alex

At the majority of any average "espresso" bar, yep, I would agree. Not at these places, where they hold themselves out as a higher standard. Comparing Apples and Oranges in my view.

And actually, at at least one place, I was talking to the owner, hisownself! Who by the way pulled the best shot of the trip using Four Barrels "Friendo". Again, we're not talking about Starbucks here!

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Compass Coffee
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Joined: 19 years ago

#4: Post by Compass Coffee »

I wonder how many top NASCAR drivers know the part number of the pistons in the car's engine... Irrelevant to them performing.
Mike McGinness

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Randy G.
Posts: 5340
Joined: 17 years ago

#5: Post by Randy G. »

Better questions:
"How often do you change the grind? How much of a change? In what direction?"
"How do you measure the dose?"
"Do you pre-infuse?"
"What temperature is the brew boiler set at?"
It can help differentiate between a barista and a PBTC.

And the whole, "It's just a job" is BS. I worked at and later helped manage a bicycle shop. At the beginning the staff were enthusiasts who love bicycles, loved talking about them, fixing them, riding them. Later management changed and just about anyone could get a job and the shop headed into the WC. Good management educates and motivates employees.

My "technique" is to walk in and order a straight espresso. Few people do that. After sipping I go from there. If it is good I strike up a conversation. Sometimes the barista asks what I think first.
EspressoMyEspresso.com - 2000-2023 - a good run, its time is done

WSH (original poster)
Posts: 291
Joined: 11 years ago

#6: Post by WSH (original poster) »

Compass Coffee wrote:I wonder how many top NASCAR drivers know the part number of the pistons in the car's engine... Irrelevant to them performing.


Actually, a more accurate equivalent of my question/answer would be the NASCAR driver not even knowing what make engine they have under the hood. Unlikely!

WSH (original poster)
Posts: 291
Joined: 11 years ago

#7: Post by WSH (original poster) »

Randy,
Randy G. wrote:Better questions:
"How often do you change the grind? How much of a change? In what direction?"
"How do you measure the dose?"
"Do you pre-infuse?"
"What temperature is the brew boiler set at?"
It can help differentiate between a barista and PBTC.
I asked many of those questions too but you gotta start somewhere! :D
My "technique" is to walk in and order a straight espresso. Few people do that. After sipping I go from there. If it is good I strike up a conversation. Sometimes the barista asks what I think first.
That's precisely my "technique" as well; with similar results.

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Compass Coffee
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#8: Post by Compass Coffee »

WSH wrote:Actually, the equivalent of my question would be the driver not even knowing what make engine they have under the hood!
Ok agreed yet still irrelevant to them being able to know how to utilize their tool, the car, and be a top contender and win races. An excellent performing barista, as evidenced in the cup, can know how to utilize their grinder extremely well without knowing the make or model. Not all barista are or not to be equipment geeks. A barista is a person who makes and serves coffee, not a person who necessarily buys and/or services equipment.

Sure I damn well better know every single piece of equipment in my coffeehouses intimately and I do, and some of my staff are more machine heads than others yet it is not a requirement of being an ace barista. Having an excellent palate is far more important than knowing what brand of equipment they are using. It is very important they understand how and why equipment works the way it does and how to make adjustments and fine tuning etc. but their knowledge base does not need to equal an obsessive owner's (or obsessive home barista :wink: )
Mike McGinness

WSH (original poster)
Posts: 291
Joined: 11 years ago

#9: Post by WSH (original poster) »

Mike

You're getting carried away with what I said and going off into the weeds here.

I am not suggesting they know everything about the grinder and/or machine or how they work inside and out. However, simply knowing whether the grinder is a flat or conical burr grinder would be nice and doesn't seem like to much to ask for. No big deal, I'll get over it.

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Spitz.me
Posts: 1960
Joined: 14 years ago

#10: Post by Spitz.me »

How can you be a professional at something and only know a small part about what actually has a material impact on HOW you operate?

I disagree that baristas don't need to know much about gear. That's like saying a professional only needs what things are available without knowing what the differences are and how to make the right decisions with respect to gear. If you can't GEAR yourself, you're useless. I have yet to meet a true professional who doesn't NEED to know why and how. Instead of, "oh, so I tap this two times and I press this and I make sure it runs for 30s. Does this one have fruits?" No, that's not a barista, that's a person working the coffee machine and if you don't care about consistency than that great, but the person lacking knowledge will be highly inconsistent and also not care.
LMWDP #670

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