For what it's worth, many mass-media outlets, including The New York Times, Washington Post, and very recently, ABC's Nightline seem to find it a useful term and concept. I've found that the folks who hate the term and its usage seem to have trouble seeing the relevant big-picture. It's clearly helped many folks understand the distinction between perspectives on coffee quality. Google it.

There's definitely a problem of many of the folks utilizing the "third wave" term in the context of demeaning "past waves," or at least seeming oblivious to the greater industry context and history. It sort of makes sense though. Though there have been a few manifestos over the years that have sought in some way to define or clarify what "third wave of coffee" means, on the most part, folks develop their own definitions. Some are closer to the "canonical" third-wave concept from Trish, others to the similar but slightly different one from Tim Castle (couldn't find the link anymore), but in an era where the usual adjectives or superlatives (gourmet, high-end, luxury, etc.) tend to be less useful than in years past, the "third wave" device has clearly been a useful one, even if it's a bit of a "necessary evil."

Mark08859 wrote:For a few years I have been reading posts/topics that mention "3rd Wave". But, I must admit that I have no idea as to what the term really means. Is it the Starbuck's era and beyond (since *$ has fallen from grace) of espresso/coffee where folks became more aware of what they were drinking?

For that matter, what were the first two waves - pre and post pump?

Thanks for any insight.

This may or may not be insightful for you: http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2006/0 ... mpousness/

Ken Fox wrote:Define "large number of people." My impression is that the term is used only by people in the industry and a few home user wannabees.

Kripes sake, Ken, I'll go out and ask everyone and get you a count. It's bloody useful, so we use it.

"Hey, didja get to that new coffee place while you were in 'x'?"
"Yeah, it's not a bad place", is it a chain, or what?"
"No, it's a third wave kinda shop, but they're still getting up to speed with their crew..."

or

Hey, I'm going to be in 'X', do you know a good place to get a decent cuppa?"
"Like, a third wave place or jut a decent cuppa joe?"
"A third wave place."

You don't have to use it, and you don't even have to like it, but to cast aspersions on those of us that find it handy is just mean. You don't even know me. Hey! I *could* be a really nice guy with a really lax vocabulary...

The various definitions don't seem to line up, they don't even define the first and second waves in the same ways and in the same timeframes. Thats always a cause for concern. There was a comment earlier that "gourmet" and "high end" are not as useful terms as they once were and it does look like third wave is an attempt to replace them with a term that is a more usefully vague marketing term. It does smell strongly like "web 3.0", a term that also is lacking in definition but one that some of the cool kids want applied to them.

Defending the term by saying that journalists use it is hardly an argument for it having a useful meaning, its an argument for it being fashionable in some limited circles.

The problem with any of these labels is that most everyone who uses them has their own definition (I demur on "Web 3.0" since I'm not really even sure what that is supposed to mean).

If you asked most people what "gourmet coffee" is and where do you get it, they would probably say that Starbucks is a good example of "gourmet coffee," and that if you want to go buy other gourmet coffee you should go somewhere like Dean and Deluca. The clique of high end independent and small chain coffee shops, mostly in N. America, the sorts of places that enter their baristas in barista competitions, came up with the term "third wave" to try to distinguish and describe themselves. But I find that term no more useful than "gourmet coffee."

In the end, if you are seeking good coffee or a good cafe, you need to ask the opinions of people whose taste in coffee you respect. These people will hopefully steer you in the right direction. They might send you to one of the marquee cafes, or they might send you to Alan or Bernie's cafes (or someplace like their cafes located in the area that interests you).

But the term "third wave" won't really get you anything in particular that you couldn't get by more precisely defining what it is that you are looking for.

ken

Ken Fox wrote:The clique of high end independent and small chain coffee shops, mostly in N. America, the sorts of places that enter their baristas in barista competitions, came up with the term "third wave" to try to distinguish and describe themselves.

I don't know when one strata of coffee bars moves from a category to a "clique," but they are emphatically not the villains you are looking for. Tim Castle, a green broker and writer you have met several times, used the term in an early article, I think for "Tea and Coffee Trade Journal." But, it did not come into wider use until Trish Rothgeb, a roaster, wrote a piece drawing inspiration from the stages of the women's movement.

In 2006, the late Joel Starr began a blog he called "Third Wave Coffee" in honor, I think, of his employer, Tim Castle, and what Joel considered the highest levels of coffee achievement.

As of today, a Google search for "third wave coffee" brings up 292,000 hits. Love it or hate it, it is beyond absurdity to think this term was invented by elite coffee bars and is used only by a tiny clique.

I didn't label anyone or anything as a villain in my post.

As with any descriptive term that develops a following, one can always find antecedent uses in print and try to assign undue importance to them. Descriptors are frequently "hijacked" in the sense that the way in which their actual use evolves over time and the result is they come to mean something a bit different than the term's originator might have intended.

In the end I don't think it really matters. I personally find the current usage of this term to be somewhat "self-congratulatory" on the part of the people I've seen using it. But that is just my opinion.

ken

Marshall wrote:As of today, a Google search for "third wave coffee" brings up 292,000 hits. Love it or hate it, it is beyond absurdity to think this term was invented by elite coffee bars and is used only by a tiny clique.

A search for 'coffee' returns 174,000,000. '3rd wave' is 0.17%... thus tiny!

Brace yourself, Ken: third wave is yesterday's news:

Rejoice! Fourth-wave coffee is here...

Yea, the world is awash with waves!