Hi everyone,

I'm still a fairly new member and haven't posted too many things here. But since this site is quite the fount of knowledge, I have a brew chemistry question that I hope could be answered.

Has anyone ever had a brewing experience where a high water temp (i.e. 208-212 F) would bring out a savory, brothy quality along with a sharp acidity in the cup?

This happens quite often when I'm brewing with a tea strainer into a small 210 ml cup:

The Case for In-Cup Steeping

So the system has a decent heat retention. But I often had a brothy brew whenever I brewed with a high temp.

Usually I associate 'brothy' with severely underdeveloped roasting. But this brothiness is absent whenever I brew the same beans with either lower temp (196 F) using the strainer, or 200 F using a pourover cone like V60 or Kalita Wave.

Any elucidation would be appreciated. Thank you!

Well,

The 'brothiness' I'm referring to is different from some savory origin notes (e.g. Tomato soup in Kenya, nuttiness in Latin America, or peanut skin in Java). It's more of a fishy broth I get regardless of the beans (all fairly lightly roasted). It's perhaps closer to an underdeveloped roasting note.

And, yes, I am aware that the range of high temp I gave (208-212) is above SCAA standards. It was a carryover from past experimentation in playing with other parameters--1:10 ratio, super coarse grind. That said, I do still get the brothiness even using 203-205 temp and a looser ratio.

I hope my example range of a high temp does not distract from the question at hand. It pertains more to whether anyone ever gets anything resembling a brothiness that's not bitter overextraction when brewing with a temp that is too high for a given method. Hope this helps clarify! Thank you.

I, and Matt perger as well, will often brew light roasts right off the boil. I have had nothing but sweet tasting coffee. I cannot state what your issue is but can state that I don't get any fishy business.

Are all these coffees from the same roaster? I know Chicago has the how light can you go mentality in coffee roasting and most end up under developed and don't taste all too great. I avoid these.

Do you have a high mineral content water / heavy water?

My experience is that "brothy" flavors are generally a trait found in the coffee and developed (intentionally or not) during the roasting process. These brothy (savory & even meaty) flavors seem to pop out more in the medium roast range, not something I notice a lot in under-developed roasts.

Admittedly, I haven't played with water that hot in some time, but would be good to play around a bit. My first suggestion would be to lower your brew temperature and see if that fixes it. Second would be to try different water. Third, different brew method. Fourth, different coffee.

My experience is that "brothy" flavors are generally a trait found in the coffee and developed (intentionally or not) during the roasting process. These brothy (savory & even meaty) flavors seem to pop out more in the medium roast range, not something I notice a lot in under-developed roasts.

This does seem more in line with what I'm experiencing in my strainer brew with temp above 196. The "brothiness" is similar to underdeveloped roasting notes, but I don't think it's the same. Otherwise, I would have detected the brothy flavors in cupping post-roast. It makes me super curious, though, what that chemical reaction would be during the roasting process. I could be totally wrong, but my understanding is that any brothy and vegetal notes indicate chlorogenic acids that should be broken down further with longer development post first crack.

Are all these coffees from the same roaster?

The beans are not all from the same roaster. The one i just brewed today was a Kenyan from Populace (Bay City, MI). Light, but not Tim Wendleboe light. Other times I've brewed beans from One Line in Columbus (Colombia El Faldon), and some of my own (a Sulawesi Bone Bone dropped at 404-405 F).

If I brew any of these beans in the tea strainer, the brothiness comes out with a high temp. Peculiarly, the best, sweetest cup I got for the Kenyan minus the broth was 189 F with a total brew time of 2:10. Granted it was only about 200 mL.

I brew mainly around 209-210 with great results. Mostly light SO's