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Pourover steeping time for different volumes

Postby irrelevancy on Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:13 am

Hi all

So I'm experimenting with the Hario V60 pourover (2 cup filter cones) and have some questions regarding the steeping/brewing time for this method.

Basically I understand that a single cup of about 350ml of coffee should take anywhere between 2.5 - 3.5 minutes to brew (including preinfusion).Eg: Sweet Marias' recommendations.

I'm just wondering what to do if I want to brew less coffee. My assumption is to the same brew strength, and just reduce the coffee dose accordingly, but keep the same grind size. This would result in a shorter brew time (Eg: 2min for 200ml), and would result in what I assume is coffee that tastes the same as a higher volume coffee drink with a similar brew ratio but longer brew time.

Is this how I should approach it, or do people do something different?

Thanks
Sing
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Postby chang00 on Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:31 am

Generally, keep the steep time the same.

I place the whole apparatus on a scale. 12-14g coffee/200g of water in 3-4 minutes.
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Postby irrelevancy on Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:33 am

Hi there

However, if I were the steep time the same (for a smaller volume of drink), wouldn't that lead to an overextracted coffee, as each unit of water sits in contact with the coffee for a lot longer.

I guess another way of putting it is: if 200ml of water brews 14g of coffee in 3 minutes
Then should 400ml of water brew 28g in 6 minutes?
This would ensure that brew water is flowing through the coffee bed at the same rate, hence the extraction would remain the same. If I were to brew 400ml in 3 minutes, I assume the drink would come out weak?

Or am I getting it wrong?

Thanks
Sing
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Postby another_jim on Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:42 am

The brewing time of coffee is determined almost entirely by the grind setting, and has almost nothing to do with concentration or brew method. A fine grind requires fast brewing times, a coarse grinds slower ones. This is true whether you are dong espresso, drip or steep; whether you are brewing single strength like regular drip, or octo-strength like modern espresso.

The grinds themselves reach an extraction equilibrium, i.e. it is an asymptotic process. Unfortunately, you can't just let the grinds sit extra long, and let the extraction reach its proper limit. The acidity of the brew also hydrolizes the long chain molecules and leaches very bitter compounds into the cup (think instant coffee taste).

This creates a bit of a gotcha in practical brewing. An under-extracted brew contains the fast dissolving acids and maillard compounds, which have powerful flavors. The caramels and other sweet dessert flavors, that buffer the acids and bitters dissolve more slowly. A fully extracted brew has all the caramels and will be more of a crowd-pleaser than an under-extracted one; although for some coffees, the extra clarity of a slightly under-extracted brew is preferable to afficionados. But let it brew too long, and the crowd pleaser turns into gas station coffee.

One way to get fault tolerant coffee is to use very poorly insulated brewing equipment. If the brew temperature is dropping fast, the leaching won't happen (think of toddy coffee). However, this can also flatten the brew, as is the case with many of the carefully prepared Chemex, Hario and other craft drip coffee I drink.

I've been sniffing my steeping coffees as the time to decant it draws near, since I believe any food prep process is better done with sensory feedback than blind. It may be that the increasingly funky smell of the crust can be used as some kind of readiness indicator; but I'm not sure yet.
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Postby cannonfodder on Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:54 pm

Just as pulling a single shot, double or triple all run the same extraction time, so will your brew times. Just adjust your grind accordingly for the length of extraction. I tend to go with a minimum steep time even with my French press. I grind finer so my brew times are reduced. That also helps with the brew temperature when using something like a French press which looses heat very fast. I grind finer so my steep time is around 1.5 minutes.
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Postby irrelevancy on Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:01 am

Thanks for all the replies - makes much more sense now!

Basically, I have to look at things from the coffee ground's "perspective!". 3 minutes of brewing is 3 minutes of brewing to a grain of coffee, regardless of how much water flows past him. Any longer and he will give up more caramels and all, and less and he will give up less.

How the end cup tastes depends on how much water his contribution is spread across.

Sing
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Postby endlesscycles on Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:12 am

Irr.: The coffee would overextract regardless of time if too much fresh water washed the solids out.

Generally, time is an okay (if that) guideline but has not nearly the effect of brew recipe.
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Postby allon on Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:14 am

another_jim wrote:One way to get fault tolerant coffee is to use very poorly insulated brewing equipment. If the brew temperature is dropping fast, the leaching won't happen (think of toddy coffee).


Huh, interesting.
Is this the reason that a CMA lever is very forgiving? I've pulled really really slow shots that came out sweet and syrupy, not overextracted. The group sheds a lot of heat, and once the water is in, there's no additional heat pumping into the group, save where it connects to the boiler.

Is this also why an HX hump colors the flavor a particular way?
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Postby another_jim on Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:51 pm

endlesscycles wrote:Irr.: The coffee would overextract regardless of time if too much fresh water washed the solids out.


You cannot overextract coffee in neutral PH water, you just extract all the solubles, getting to the par extraction. The evil, penetrating bitter flavors of overextracted brews like instant coffee come from the acids in the coffee breaking down normally insoluble compounds and putting these breakdown products into the brew.

This is why the run out from a lungo espresso tastes so mild, while the 2nd half of an ultra ristretto pull can be quite evil tasting.
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Postby irrelevancy on Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:11 pm

Thanks for the info.

1 more quesiton - how to I extend my brew time? On an espresso I would make the grind finer, but it seems that the recommendation for pourover is to coarsen the grind. I don't understand how this works.

Thanks
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