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Pourover steeping time for different volumes - Page 2

Postby endlesscycles on Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:50 am

another_jim wrote:You cannot overextract coffee in neutral PH water, you just extract all the solubles, getting to the par extraction. The evil, penetrating bitter flavors of overextracted brews like instant coffee come from the acids in the coffee breaking down normally insoluble compounds and putting these breakdown products into the brew.

This is why the run out from a lungo espresso tastes so mild, while the 2nd half of an ultra ristretto pull can be quite evil tasting.



So a full immersion brew is more likely to be bitter than a drip? Also, would that suggest the excessive prewet delay would be cause of bitter?
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Postby another_jim on Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:10 pm

I don't do a lot of drip, so I don;t know the answer to this.

I had an interesting discussion with the Josh of CCC at our last get together, since he favors the Clever Dripper like I do for its combo of full immersion brewing and the subsequent filtration and clear brew. I expressed frustration since it took me about 2 minutes for the drip part, and I would prefer a minute or less. He uses a coarser grind that is standard, stirs for minute, steeps for two and drips for one. The steep and drip part use a lid. I'll be trying his recipe this week.
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Postby allon on Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:25 pm

That's the standard sweet marias recommended way, isn't it?
I think of it as a french press brew, filtered through paper. I make sure to preheat the CCD and cover it while brewing; I stir, steep about 3 minutes, stir again, steep about another minute, then drain.

I use a CCD with skerton on six notches from zero when I travel; I haven't tried it with Pharos ... Yet!
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Postby endlesscycles on Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:51 pm

I guess what I'm startled about is that what you are saying, at least how I'm hearing it is there is really no such thing as overextraction so much as overreaction. This has lots of technique implications I think.
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Postby endlesscycles on Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:47 am

another_jim wrote:You cannot overextract coffee in neutral PH water, you just extract all the solubles, getting to the par extraction. The evil, penetrating bitter flavors of overextracted brews like instant coffee come from the acids in the coffee breaking down normally insoluble compounds and putting these breakdown products into the brew.



Jim,

Will you tell me your source for this information?
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Postby another_jim on Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:47 am

The industrial coffee companies have made a science of over-extraction. The most info is in Sivetz Coffee Technology. Especially the long section on making soluble coffees. The actual water solubles in coffee are 20% to 22%, the optimal extraction range. Everything more is breakdown products from hydrolization.

Modern instant coffee has a "solubles yield" of about 55% (up from the 45% in Sivetz's day, this according to Vizthum and Clarke). This miracle is achieved by brewing the coffee under pressure, at around 150C (20 bars!), for about 6 hours (down from the 48 in Sivetz's day). Fortunately, the really bad tasting stuff apparently is the 22% to 27% yield fraction. After that, it's all tasteless starch from broken down cellulose. So the taste of instant is like that of an amerciano made from the world's worst ultra-ristretto, that has also been left standing long enough to lose all its aroma.
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