Pourover methods that can use fine grind setting?

Coffee preparation techniques besides espresso like pourover.
PandaSPUR
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#1: Post by PandaSPUR »

Hi there, I just recently got more into espresso and coffee in general.

I have a Saeco Poemia w/ SCG's naked portafilter and my Baratza Vario is arriving today.

I understand that the Vario cannot be relied on to accurately jump between fine and coarse settings.

So I was wondering, are there any pour-over or immersion methods that would work with grounds as fine as we use for espresso?

From guides I've read (stumpton and prima-coffee) the V60 and Melitta can use fine to medium grinds, but I have yet to see much info on anyone who has tried using espresso level fine grounds on these two pourover methods.

I do have a Hario Mini already for pourovers, and I'm currently not interested in buying a second cheaper grinder for coarse grounds.

pacificmanitou
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#2: Post by pacificmanitou »

Fine is pretty relative. A fine brew grind is noticeably larger than the coarsest of espresso. You can use a finer than average grind on v60, since the filter is thin.
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PandaSPUR (original poster)
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#3: Post by PandaSPUR (original poster) replying to pacificmanitou »

Hmm so what you're saying is, grounds for an espresso would still be far too fine for a V60?

MWJB
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#4: Post by MWJB »

Maybe, maybe not...try it. Make sure the grounds are all well wetted in the bloom by stirring the slurry (you don't want any dry clods & clumps), you'll probably need to add all the water in one hit after blooming (you want to dilute the slurry some & let a proportion of the water run through quick under gravity, then as the level drops extraction will pick up), start out a little high on brew ratio (~70g/l)...you can always pulse a little more water through the bed at the end. Or brew on a stand, catch a few drops in a spoon & taste as you go, kill by taste & pull the cup away?

The Hario white papers are a tight weave so may not clog completely (Chemex & Filtropa white papers may not fare so well)...the brown (Hario, Filtra) papers are sometimes tighter still & may not clog with a very fine grind, but they can attribute off flavours.

Aeropress, Clever & Bonavita immersion cone can all be made to "work" with espresso grinds (again, avoid clumps of dry grounds)...but it might give more ideal results to use the hand grinder?

PandaSPUR (original poster)
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#5: Post by PandaSPUR (original poster) »

Hmm interesting, sounds like it could be a fun experiment (although one that could result in $20 wasted :\)

The main reason I'm looking to do what I've stated is because my sister likes to make her coffee by using a coffee filter on top of a typical scoop shaped strainer. With store bought grounds.

She likes my Saeco Poemia but says its too much of a hassle (dose, tamp, pull, then clean up).
Her method just requires chucking the filter and rinsing the strainer.

So simplicity is key here. If I could just give her a V60 and let her do what she normally does, I think she would at least see an improvement thanks to fresh grounds. But none of this would work if the fine espresso grounds just choke those paper filters.

How about the Melitta pour-over brewer? It seems to be even simpler than the V60 and its only $5 lol.
EDIT: Clever also seems to be a good and easy method, so thats also an option right now.

MWJB
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#6: Post by MWJB »

PandaSPUR wrote: How about the Melitta pour-over brewer? It seems to be even simpler than the V60 and its only $5 lol.
EDIT: Clever also seems to be a good and easy method, so thats also an option right now.
For simplicity the Melitta, or Bonmac style cone may be a good choice? Aeropress is a bit of a departure from her usual technique, but is a great, quick & clean brewer (you don't have to make a concentrate & dilute, you can just mag a mugful in one hit, may be better "inverted" with a very fine grind).

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JmanEspresso
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#7: Post by JmanEspresso »

I personally have tried using the V60 with the setting Id use for espresso, on the Vario.

the draw down time is obviously extended, but my opinion is thats not the problem. The problem is the slurry overextracts before it can all draw down.

But, my espresso setting(its a range of settings really), is not necessarily what YOU use for espresso.


Furthermore, you CAN use the vario to brew espresso and brew coffee effectively. If you know the two settings on the grinder you would like to use, you can switch between them and get the grind you seek, without a whole lot of waste. My Vario is my dedicated brew grinder, but I have used it for espresso plenty of times, it was my main espresso grinder for a little while when I was in between large grinders. In a nutshell.. say you're dialed in for espresso. To transition to brew, turn on the grinder, change the setting, turn off. How much waste there depends on how quick you do this, but you should be able to keep it to a minimum. I would generally let it grind for about 1 second once the brew setting is reached. The same applies to going back to the espresso setting, let it grind for a second, perhaps two, once the espresso setting is reached, to be sure what is in the chute(and what will end up in your next shot), is the finely ground espresso setting you desire.

I dont extremely extensive experience doing this, but Ive done it enough times to say, if you only have the one grinder and wish to use it regularly for two brew methods, one being espresso, the hassle is minimal. I personally didnt have issue with it not retaining my espresso setting upon return from a brew setting. All I can say is try it out and see how YOU fare with it.

Now, if you were to single dose the vario, ie: not keep beans in the hopper, just add what you need per shot/cup, there is no hassle involved. Just change the setting and grind a little bit through once you reach the new setting. This is how I use my Vario all the time(though remember, I only switch it to espresso settings now and then)

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XCman
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#8: Post by XCman »

The Vario a great grinder for the V60. I think it's better then the Lido. Seem to bring out more complex
mid notes then the Lido in my option. And that's with the ceramic burrs. The V60 need a vary fine drip grind that is well within the Varios fine grinding strength.
I've tried it with a Melitta a few times,but never got it dialed in like the V60. But should work fine and their cheap.
I would also suggest that if your going to do both espresso and pour over that you single dose the Vario. It will
make getting back to espresso setting easy and consistent. And when going from espresso to pour over grind you toss a few beans in the hopper to to blow the fine espresso grinds out of the chute.

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yakster
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#9: Post by yakster »

I have had no problems switching grind size frequently for espresso and daily pour-over, but Aeropress is probably the method that can take the finest grinds.
-Chris

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PandaSPUR (original poster)
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#10: Post by PandaSPUR (original poster) »

Hmm so all three of you have had good experiences using the Vario for both brew methods?

I always got the impression (from reading these forums, coffeegeek, and reviews in general) that the Vario's settings are not accurate between adjustments. So if I've got my machine dialed in for the 2C setting for my 25 second extraction, then I switch to a coarse setting for pour-overs, when I switch back the 2C setting may not give me the same results.

And I was planning on keeping the hopper about 1/3rd full. A sort of compromise between freshness and convenience.

It's nice to see that I have more options than expected with the Vario. I might still just try with the Melitta first (since its so inexpensive) and try other methods later.

In my opinion the glass Kalita Wave is the most beautiful of the bunch, I'd love to be able to use that with my Vario (and convert my sister eventually). Espresso quality is still my first goal though, so I'll start low and see where I end up with the pour-overs.

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