For the last few months, I've been using a Virtuoso 585 for my non-espresso needs and have been happy. Well, once the Lido2 was available for pre-order I bought one and now the Virtuoso is at a new home.

I've been making mostly pourover (hario woodneck with cloth filters) for the last week with the Virtuoso but I made one this morning with my Pharos (setting=0.8 of 1 revolution). The coffee used was Grumpy La Bolsa (La Huerta) Guat that I'm familiar with and have been using for about two weeks (this was second jar from freezer and about 4 days after thawing). Routine and dose have been kept the same.

Enough preamble, I am really shocked by how much better I like today's coffee with the Pharos over the Virtuoso. While I am not a super taster and struggle with notes in drip (I think I'm better with espresso but still a n00b), I am tasting more body and the 'tiramisu' that the bag mentions. The grounds looks more or less the same to me as what the Virtuoso produces but with slightly more dust.

I wasn't expecting this result, so I would be interested to hear what others think.

I matched it with an Aeropress for 2 weeks when I first got it (traveling). Preparation was less than ideal (on a cruise ship). I landed on .75 turn from zero as my preferred setting (non-inverted). Made a better cup than what I was brewing at work with a skerton. Grinding at this level was supper easy, even with a lighter roasted coffee. It went into full espresso mode when I got back. I'll give it a go with a Nel Drip tonight.

When I first got my pharos, I made some truly excellent french presses with it. I also made some pretty good pour overs. Then later I found it to be not nearly as good. At coarser (than espresso) settings, the pharos makes a nice even grind, but it also makes a fair bit of dust. I suspect (complete speculation here) that different coffees are more or less tolerant of what that dust does to the cup. Might be a good candidate for a sifter.

It would be interesting to see how Pharos vs. lido for brew goes. I expect lido to win out by a large margin, but given your experience, maybe not.

That's interesting, Jorge. I have never found that my HG-one outperforms my brew grinders (Breville Smart and Preciso), and if anything my experience with it has been slightly worse. Based on this, I never really bothered trying to dial the Pharos in for drip. Maybe I'll have to give a shot at some point.

Still, given that you have never used them side by side, is it possible that you have just found a better grind-size setting on the Pharos than you were using with the Virtuoso? I wonder if the fines from the Pharos are slowing down your brew compared with what you were getting before, and giving you a fuller body and mouthfeel. If that is the case, you might find that using a finer (but more consistent) grind with a virtuoso (or your soon-to-arrive Lido2) suits your tastes even better than what you are experiencing with the Pharos.

I was pretty happy with my Skerton. My best cups so far have been from a Hario nel woodneck. It was not until the Pharos arrived that I began to understand what people mean when the say "nuanced." I'm very happy with the Pharos, have ordered the Lido2, and am looking for a good lever. mmmm... real coffee!

I'm not sure if there is a point to my post, but I suppose it is that with the coffee I was using the Pharos' "inferior grinds" (ie with noticable dust) tasted better than the Virtuoso's "better looking". I have no experience with blind or double blind tasting, but it would have been be cool to do that here (but alas the Virtuoso is gone).

I suppose after a couple years of taking my coffee seriously, I need to start refining my palate so I can verify why I liked the Pharos cup more than the Virtuoso cup. Was one clearer than the other but my preference liked the muddier cup with more flavors? I feel a bit confused again.

OK, I didn't intend this to be so indepth, but in the spirit of all the awesome testing going on around here I guess I got inspired. I've also been neglecting my camera so it will be a little picture heavy, sorry.

For the test, I choose the middle recommended drip adjustment setting for both grinders. Twenty-two for the Preciso, and 1 full turn from zero on the Pharos. I visually compared grind size at different adjustments, and determined that the grind size was similar at this level too.

I knew which grinder was used while analyzing the results, so no double blind tasting for me. I had my girlfriend taste each cup, and asked her what she thoughts. She didn't know what coffee I prepared, which grinder I used, or what I was up too. Handing her cups and asking her opinion is a daily standard here.

As for the test, I used the same coffee, Guatemala Huehuetenango Finca Regalito at a city roast, with the same dose, brew weight, time and temperature. Or at least very close.

Pharos - 1 Turn - Nel Drip

Beans In: 22.01
Grounds Out:21.86
Brew Time: 2:31
Time at 352g: 1:55
Draw Down Time: 0:36
Beverage weight: 313
TDS: 1.25
%EXT: 17.93

Mine thoughts: Flavors turned down. Virtually no distinction or separation of flavor. Not clean. If I had nothing to compare it to, and it was the only grinder I used or have used, I'd probably think it was not too bad. Not sure if that make sense. Basically, there are worse grinders out there.

GF thoughts: I doesn't have much flavor, I don't like it.

Preciso - 22 - Nel Drip


Bean Weight: 22.04
Grounds Out: 21.80
Brew Time: 2:18
Time at 354g: 1:53
Draw Down Time: 0:24
Beverage Weight: 312
TDS: 1.43
%EXT: 20.41

My Thoughts: It was clearly a better cup. Much cleaner, more sweetness, flavor distinction. Overall, just more enjoyable to drink.

GF: Way better.


Other notes: I wish I took pictures of the filter before I rinsed it. The Pharos brew left behind coffee sludge on the filter. I've see it before when I use to use a Vario. It is from the fines. They pass through the other grounds and end on settling on the filter. I'm not sure if fines in and of themselves have an effect on flavor, but if they effect the way a coffee extracts then they do in a round about way worsen the coffee. The extra fines is what likely caused the longer draw time. I also had to stop several times to let the brew settle down a little to avoid it over flowing. The Preciso brew allowed a continuous pour. I used a slightly tighter grind setting then normal on the Preciso. I typically hit around 1.3 and 19%EXT when I measure it (not very often). But I actually enjoyed this coffee more in this range. I'm going to use this tighter setting for future brewing and see how it goes.

That's my experiment. It was fun.

Pictures
Comparison Up Close:


Preciso Close Up:



Pharos Close Up:



Preciso:



Pharos:

Thanks pShoe. I too have done a pharos vs preciso shootout with basically the same results. The pharos CAN make a great drip cup, but it depends I think on the coffee. Something like the preciso with less fines will presumably be much more consistent. Any more the only time I use pharos for non-espresso is when I am traveling.

There's room for improvement. I use the Presico every day for Nel Drip, but yesterday was the first time I used the Pharos for drip. The measurements were better on the Presico cup as well. Playing with the grind setting might improve the Pharos' results. Changing the dose would likely see better results. Unfortunately, the fines will always be there. Perhaps using it with a manual brew method where the fines won't have as much on an influence would work better. In any case, it was a fun experiment but the Pharos is back to espresso duty where it excels beautifully.