I am looking for guidance trying to closely match the delicious taste of my cupping style mugs in a scaled up and no grinds remaining format.

My cupping mugs are 7g / 150ml steeped for 4mins, crust broken, scum removed. The result is amazing! What I don't like is the mug is so small. I can probably scale up to a larger mug but the grinds on bottom are not conducive to using a travel mug if I have to.

I have tried scaling up using a French press with the same grind - typical 60g/L ratio steeped for 4 mins, grinds scooped off, plunge but the taste does not match. Is there something to the grinds staying in a cupping bowl that makes it better? The cupping method tastes better than my French presses even early on so the difference can't be all due to the grinds staying in contact.

I have tried the Clever - same grind, ratio, 4:00 steep, grinds scooped then 40s drawdown. It's good but not great.

I have had presses and Clevers that were great (just not made by me) so this isn't a case of preference. Please help me reach the next level.

Grinder: Vario with steel burrs
Brew method options: Espro press, Clever dripper
Problem: I can't make a French press or clever taste as good as cupping

I get really good cups with the Impress brewer. As a bonus, it's quick and brews in the mug; I ground 18 grams of Brazil Rainha with my Lido 2 at work, tossed the grounds in the tumbler, filled it 3/4 full from the hot water tap and put the inner sleeve in without pushing down. By the time I shut my laptop down and got to the car to rush to a meeting, it was time to press the sleeve with metal filter down and I got to enjoy hot coffee on the way and during the meeting.

I hear the Espro Press is good to, but I haven't tried it. What's missing from your press pot cups?

My presses are not as clear or sweet and have less body. If I steep longer they tend to go muddy. The major difference I can think of is the Espro being double walled is not losing heat so maybe I am brewing too hot?

The Clever is weaker, clear but crisp, less sweet.

As a benchmark I define the cupping brew as having the most sweetness and clarity of flavour.

The Impress uses a double wall stainless outer tumbler and retains heat. When I'm not in a rush, I'll brew with the sleeve off to use a declining brew profile and get a cooler cup to drink. Coffee tastes sweeter as it cools, at least good coffee an the Impress keeps the coffee hot but makes great coffee with body.

mfogliet wrote:My cupping mugs are 7g / 150ml steeped for 4mins, crust broken, scum removed. The result is amazing! What I don't like is the mug is so small. I can probably scale up to a larger mug but the grinds on bottom are not conducive to using a travel mug if I have to.

I have tried scaling up using a French press with the same grind - typical 60g/L ratio steeped for 4 mins, grinds scooped off, plunge but the taste does not match. Is there something to the grinds staying in a cupping bowl that makes it better? The cupping method tastes better than my French presses even early on so the difference can't be all due to the grinds staying in contact.

I have tried the Clever - same grind, ratio, 4:00 steep, grinds scooped then 40s drawdown. It's good but not great.

You say you are cupping at 7:150, but brewing in the French press at 60g/l? Very different ratios.

You'll have a much slower temperature decline in the Espro, possibly a higher initial slurry temp too? I have noticed brighter acidity & lower viscosity/body in my double-wall, steel, Bodum Columbia over a single-wall, glass press. I let the brew water cool further & dose up slightly in the insulated steel press to get back to my happy place.

As Jim says, beware disturbing the brew after it has started steeping, when it's time, I pour off the first quarter cup from the press or so & discard and start pouring with the plunger fully up, depressing it gradually if the flow seems to be choking. Don't know how well this will translate to the Espro? Be sure to hold the lid/plunger in place.

I think it will be difficult to replicate a pour on/pour off steep with the Clever as you invariably have to drain through the bed. A Swissgold or similar can help here, but without a paper filter too, may be murky...I have just used the Swissgold, depends on your tolerance to silt?

I you can stand a 'hazy' cup, I have found secondary filtering metal/unfiltered, smaller steeps through an Aeropress works OK (quick, little temp loss), I keep the grinds bed back & just use the Aeropress to catch the worst of the silt.

I also don't see why a fairly similar result to your cupping shouldn't be scalable if you replicate brew ratio, strike temp, agitation (or lack of it), brewer material (within reason) & temperature decline over the steep time.

another_jim wrote:... never disturbing the grinds is part of it

do you know of a mechanism underlying the phenomenon of why agitation impacts cup quality?

I have another, equally difficult to test theory - that perhaps excessive agitation breaks down the structure of the grinds (softened up by the steeping) and increases the incidence/distribution of tiny, bittering, non-dissolved solids? I haven't blind tested nominal vs over-agitated brews (so make of this what you will), but have A/B'd some & found both can have similar extraction yields.

another_jim wrote:The liquid that is trapped and tightly held in the coffee grounds may actually be over-extracted. Therefore, any action that releases these will reduce cup quality.

I was pondering a similar theory today after decanting my French press through a Kone filter. The result was more muddied than I had hoped. On the other hand, not disturbing the grinds in a cupping bowl/mug and sipping very carefully is pure bliss.