Invergo on Kickstarter - Page 9

#81:Post by **Bak Ta Lo** » Sep 10, 2016, 11:11 am

chrisbodnarphoto wrote:Totally agree on all accounts! It seems like coffee devices are especially prone to flakey kick starters.

Yes, seems like that to me too. Is it all the caffeine giving us bad judgment?

#82:Post by HB » Sep 10, 2016, 11:20 am

Bak Ta Lo wrote:The project that ended my enchantment with Kickstarter, the "Invergo" brewer, has risen from the ashes!

I've merged your thread with the existing one on (essentially) the same topic.

#83:Post by **Bak Ta Lo** » Sep 10, 2016, 11:22 am

HB wrote:I've merged your thread with the existing one on (essentially) the same topic.

Makes sense, this old post was locked from further posts for me.

#84:Post by **baldheadracing** » Sep 10, 2016, 11:49 am

chrisbodnarphoto wrote:Totally agree on all accounts! It seems like coffee devices are especially prone to flakey kick starters.

It isn't just coffee. Anything that plugs into the mains has regulatory hurdles to overcome if one wants to sell "in" North America. It is a large expense - so large that some well-known espresso machines don't have the relevant certifications. If a KS/IGogo plugs into the wall, and doesn't have six figures devoted to certification, then run ...

#85:Post by **Bob_McBob** » Sep 10, 2016, 6:16 pm

At this point Invergo is verging into straight up scam territory. See my post earlier in the thread from a couple years ago. $40k is a drop in the ocean in terms of actually funding the manufacturing of these devices; the $75k or so he has managed to raise from crowdfunding and a relative will only pay for product development, and to the best of my knowledge Cameron has not secured any further funding. The feasibility of the project was based entirely on being able to secure vast quantities of money from outside investors that have not materialized.

Bob_McBob wrote:http://www.reddit.com/r/kickstarter/comments/25u88y/i_recently_did_a_kickstarter_for_my_project/

This post is very enlightening. Based on what other posters wrote (his comments are deleted), Cameron estimated up front Invergo would need around $2.5-3.5m for an initial 10,000 unit production run. He said he planned to raise the bulk of the money through venture capital as well as business loans from family and friends. A poster even specifically called him out on not being able to provide the Kickstarter rewards unless he secures additional funding. Another poster advised him to significantly lower his goal from $250,000 to ensure a successful campaign on the second attempt. It sounds very much like the entire point of the Kickstarter campaign was to raise start-up capital for the company itself so they could try to get their real funding elsewhere.

Invergo is currently trying to raise funds on angel.co with an initial seed goal of $500,000. According to Cameron's recent Reddit posts (edit: deleted after I posted this), their overall goal is about $3m. So far they have $7500 from one of his relatives.

#86:Post by **Bak Ta Lo** » Sep 11, 2016, 9:08 am

Bob_McBob wrote:At this point Invergo is verging into straight up scam territory. See my post earlier in the thread from a couple years ago. $40k is a drop in the ocean in terms of actually funding the manufacturing of these devices; the $75k or so he has managed to raise from crowdfunding and a relative will only pay for product development, and to the best of my knowledge Cameron has not secured any further funding. The feasibility of the project was based entirely on being able to secure vast quantities of money from outside investors that have not materialized.

Chris,

Yes, this is a very good point. The Kickstarter and now the new Indigogo campaigns would have been OK if he had said, "a crowd sourcing campaign to help me raise the initial investment to make a prototype, in the hope that I can someday find full financial backing to produce the backers's a machine". But he instead continues to make the appearance the he is taking orders for a product that is basically months from shipping. Not a product that is months from finding funding. The truth is that this is not a campaign to develop and sell machines, it's a campaign to prove interest to investors. This seems to be counter to the spirit of a crowd funded development of a product.

I really question Indiegogo for allowing this campaign to be listed, when the same exact completed Kickstarter campaign did not deliver any products. They either did not fully investigate the project, or simply do not care, either way makes me question any listing I see on their site.

#87:Post by **Boldjava** » Sep 11, 2016, 2:31 pm

...and the fine print says, "This is a pre order and is subject to availability based on a production schedule. Refunds will be offered within 20 days of placing a pre order and 14 days once the product is received."

Man, that takes a pair.

#88:Post by **Bob_McBob** » Sep 11, 2016, 2:52 pm

Bak Ta Lo wrote:I really question Indiegogo for allowing this campaign to be listed, when the same exact completed Kickstarter campaign did not deliver any products. They either did not fully investigate the project, or simply do not care, either way makes me question any listing I see on their site.

Crowdfunding sites don't vet companies beyond confirming they actually exist, which is part of the reason there are so many of these ridiculous non-starter campaigns. Kickstarter doesn't even care if they get that right. One of the many shady things Arist did was pull a bait and switch by claiming to be incorporated in California with fake videos of westerners supposedly working on the project when they were actually located in Hong Kong. Then they did the same thing with ZNAPS, claiming to be located in Toronto when it was the same two jokers hiding behind one of their wives the whole time. It's incredibly easy to game the crowdfunding system with fake products or products you have no realistic hope of delivering. The Invergo Indiegogo campaign was clearly meant to secure further development funding after the Kickstarter funds ran out.

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Invergo on Kickstarter - Page 9