Hello,

This is my first post at HB so I'll say hello to everyone and express my gratitude up front for any and all pointers. So I've only just recently started trying to make what I would consider gourmet coffee on my own. Previously I used a keurig and went to Starbucks. A friend of mine from work noticed I always got an americano and asked me why I didn't just make my own using a stovetop moka pot. I never heard of it and was totally intrigued.

Anyway on my quest to make decent americano style coffees on my own (on the cheap as well) I now have a 3 cup Bialetti Moka express pot and an Aeropress. I've been trying out different coffee roasts from a local roaster in town as well as some places that were recommended on the favourite roasters section of this site.

Maybe my taste buds just aren't that refined, but I like my coffee to be very strong and thick and not have much of a wine or sour taste to it. For whatever reason just about everything I produce seems to have that soury hint to it. Maybe I brewed it right and it's supposed to have that? But I went to the darkest/lowest acidity roast I could find and it still seems too winey. I've played with grind settings, brew temp, steep time to no avail. I don't mind coffee that's so strong it's almost bitter, but the sour/wine taste I really don't like.

Is there someone with similar tastes in coffee that could give me a few pointers? Would really appreciate any help.

Thanks
Durden

Normally I'd tell you that you're likely under-extracting, to use a finer grind, and/or steep longer, but I read that you've been trying those things.

I believe your moka pot is made of aluminum. I suspect you might be tasting the metal which is a common problem with aluminum moka pots.

What's your brewing procedure? There a few refinements to what's written in the Bialetti pamphlet. Check out this method: http://stumptowncoffee.com/brew-guides/moka-pot/

Most likely it's a combination of the coffee as well as the brewing methods. The pointers above are helpful.

The specialty/gourmet coffee has a tendency to be sour(fruity) and winey for starters. It will take some time to get used to and I guess that's how coffee is supposed to taste like - they're cherry fruit (seeds) after all!

At the mean time, try searching for medium-dark roast and go for origins/coffee that is less winey, such as Brazil. Ethiopians (and most third wave blends) etc are good coffees but they can be very bright (acidic).

Coffee has got an enormous range of flavors.. Its really quite amazing. Coffees from different parts of the world, with different conditions in the climate, different strains of the plant, different growing procedures and processing methods, different roasting techniques, different grinders and different brewing methods.. Can all produce a wildly different cup of coffee. The classic "Mocha" flavor, is not what coffee is "supposed" to taste like. Coffee is not "supposed" to taste like anything. It is what it is. A multitude of different flavors and textures.

As a simple example, a Coffee from the higher end farms of Brazil, and a similar quality coffee from Kenya(Two of the most popular and well known origins), even if they were processed using a similar method, and then roasted to the same, or as close to the same level as possible, and then brewed in the same way, using the same equipment, are going to taste as different from one another as orange juice and chocolate milk.


There is definitely a coffee that is just right for you. I expect that once you find that coffee that tickles your fancy, you will explore and find different coffees you like. Personally, Ive been drinking coffee all my life, I can say with certainty that I enjoy coffee from every growing region in the world. Some more then others for sure, but there is none that I don't like.


First, lets find you a coffee. Im going to suggest you buy coffees from roasters that are on the cutting edge of coffee at the moment, because its your best bet to find something just for you, and because we can then eliminate the coffee as the source of your problem. I will list a few suggestions at the bottom of the post.

Second, lets look at the brewing methods. Moka Pot. While a good cup of coffee from the Moka Pot is more then achievable, I personally think that it is not the best method for someone new to coffee. Used improperly, its one of the quicker ways to ruin your coffee, and even when used to its fullest potential, its not the best brewing method out there. However, the Aeropress on the other hand, is a fine brewing method. MANY people here love the Aeropress. However, following the instructions that come with it.. well.. just don't. Thats not how you brew coffee, at all. And you will not find many(any)people brewing coffee according to the AP manufacturer instructions...

Here is a Link to a video and pictoral description of the method that I personally like the most, for the Aeropress. Its very simple and brews a wonderful cup of coffee, and its very easy to alter how "strong" the coffee is.

-Keep in mind.. The association with strong, and bitter, is not generally correct. True, overextracion can be bitter, but the "strong=bitter" way of thinking is based on stale, overroasted, terrible tasting coffee. You can greatly alter the cup of coffee you brew by changing the ratio of ground coffee, to water. And many people like different ratios, for different methods. For the time being, stick with using what the video/pictoral guide suggest for the aeropress, we can tweak later.

OK, so we've got the brew method, you've got the technique to use with said brew method, you've got the coffee(see below).. Grinder... Do you have a grinder? A BURR grinder? This is critical. If you don't have a burr grinder so you can grind the coffee immediately before you brew the coffee, then your immediately, guaranteed to never make a cup of coffee as good as it could be. On the cheap, you can buy the Hario Skerton hand grinder, which might look unassuming, but is quite capable. OK.. NOW you've got what you need.

Brew, taste, contemplate, and return and report your results.

Coffees:
Counter Culture Coffee- Bolivia illimani
Counter Culture Coffee- Peru La Frontera
Intelligentsia El Gallo Breakfast Blend
Batdorf&Bronson Sumatra Mandheling
Zoka Coffee Colonel Fitzroy Blend

Alright that will get you started.. I have a strong feeling that you're confusing fruit and winey flavors, with always being sour or astringent.. Thats not the case. Sourness and tartness are welcome in coffee in slight amounts. Astringency is not welcome. Fruit is VERY welcome. And fruit comes in a couple different shapes. Im pretty sure once you try a well roasted coffee that has been ground moments before brewing, and brewed properly, you're going to discover that you really enjoy those flavors. To be honest, great coffee has fruit, and has brightness, so there isn't a whole lot out there completely devoid of those qualities.

However, because its what you asked, I listed coffees which will be very light on any fruit or brightness. You'll notice there are both blends, and single origins. You're more likely to find that subtle, mild chocolately flavor profile in a blend, but the single origins I listed will also fall into that category, and provide their own take on it. You should order coffee on Sunday night. It will be roasted and shipped Monday. So you know, from the day the coffee was roasted(NOT the day you bought it, or the day you opened the bag.. the ROAST date), you've got two weeks to drink it. Do not buy in huge amounts. Buy what you can drink in two weeks, then buy again. Quality Roasters, like the ones I listed and others on this website, will put a Roast Date on the bag. A rule of thumb is if the bag of coffee has a "Best By" or "Good Until" or similar label on it instead of a "Roasted on" label.. then it was stale before you thought about buying it.

I have a strong feeling that you're confusing fruit and winey flavors, with always being sour or astringent.

+1. Before I had ever heard of specialty coffee, I went in for French or Italian roasts-dark-roasted greasy beans, the greasier the better. Since I was used to drinking coffee that tasted burnt, those were the flavors that I associated with a "good strong" cup of coffee. I can distinctly remember being disappointed by my first cup of specialty grade coffee. The coffee itself was probably great-well-sourced, -roasted and -prepared-but it didn't taste like the coffee I was used to. (The steak analogy is useful: if someone is used to eating you're steak well-done, then they are likely to be turned off by a rare or medium-rare steak, even if it is of a higher quality.) You may be in a similar situation.

FWIW: One of my as-yet-unproven theories is that the earthy flavors found in certain Asian coffees (like a semi-washed/wet-hulled Sumatran coffee) may appeal to someone used to tasting roast profile rather than coffee origin. Not sure what you can find close to home, but it's worth a try.

You have a lot of good advice from Jman. I'd just second the call to buy coffee with a stamped "Roast On" date. Whatever you get, get it while it's fresh.

Welcome to HB. Enjoy the ride.

Lots of good advice, but since the OP is in Toronto, let's point him to some roasters closer to him:
http://www.socialcoffee.com/
http://www.pilotcoffeeroasters.com/
http://www.detourcoffee.com/

These are all in the GTA, with cheap/free shipping, and they'll get to your door fast.

One recommendation, from the myriad of choices:
http://www.socialcoffee.com/products/pe ... y-espresso
But, like Jman said, if you don't have a burr grinder yet, get one first.

Better yet, before buying a pound of beans that you won't enjoy, visit some reputable cafes and see if you can find something you like. Here's one resource for TO cafes:
http://www.cafecompass.com/Home/City/Toronto

J-P

Here's an excellent web site for brew methods including the aeropress and the stove top (mocha)

http://brewmethods.com/

Hope it helps.

Paul

Oh what a dunce.

all that, and I forgot to see if he was in the states or up north. Dumb dumb dumb.

Wow! Thanks for all the really great advice. Now I have like weeks worth of researching to do haha! I'm gonna try that method from hasbean coffee soon as I get home from work tonight... it probably won't matter how it tastes I'm sure I'll love it on a day like today hah.

I did pick a burr grinder recently -- the capresso infinity. It's not exactly high end but for a starting point it seems to do just fine in getting the grinds pretty even. I'm sure a huge part of the problem is the coffee that I've been drinking most of my life is totally different. This morning I made a brazilian santos (medium roast with some acidity) and a french roast side by side in my moka. The french roast had a little of that wine taste that I'm not too keen on, and the brazilian just seemed to accentuate that even more.

jptvelo - I was thinking about trying some from social coffee company since they are pretty close in comparison with some of the other favourites. Can I use espresso type coffee for other brewing methods? I was curious about this but wasn't sure.

Jman - really appreciate you taking the time to put all that together. Lots of great information there.

One step closer to making the perfect brew