How do you get sweetness in coffee? - Page 2

#11: Post by **SJM** » January 30th, 2016, 10:57 am

endlesscycles wrote: I sincerely do not believe it can be done in a small roaster with any degree of repeatability. See what the more well known shops are brewing and buy from those roasters for a solid reference point.

So, you are suggesting that this is an unreachable goal for those of us using HUKY's for example?

#12: Post by **TomC** » January 30th, 2016, 11:57 am

endlesscycles wrote:yeah. brewing is not where sweetness comes from.... for the most part, brew evenly and thoroughly and you'll taste what has been grown and roasted. Its by roasting good coffee evenly, neither baking nor stalling at any point during the roast that sweetness emerges. I sincerely do not believe it can be done in a small roaster with any degree of repeatability. See what the more well known shops are brewing and buy from those roasters for a solid reference point.

Funny, I've been doing it for years.

I will say though, there's some truth to the theory that larger roasters can roast certain coffees better than a smaller roast can. But that doesn't hold true for every coffee. The last washed Ethiopian I've been using has been roasted on a Quest, a 2.5kilo, and a 7 kilo roaster that I used just last week. The 7 kilo was easier and the results are impressive. But that can't even be pinned down to roaster size as the controlling factor alone, it's a completely different roaster, different airflow, mass, profile, everything else that is more likely to affect the roast because of the roasters different physical makeup.

#13: Post by **alexjones** » January 30th, 2016, 3:52 pm

treq10 wrote:I'm trying to understand the theory behind achieving sweetness in coffee.

I get that bitterness comes from over-extracting, sourness from under-extracting, but I don't necessarily believe that sweetness is merely the midpoint between the two. There must be some known factors that contribute directly to coffee sweetness, but what are they? I just know that there are times when the coffee I brew comes out tasting almost cloyingly sweet, kinda like I'm gulping down milk chocolate or a fruit-caramel bomb laced with raw sugar. Other times, there's just a little bit of this and that but no sweetness. And all this out of the same batch of coffee! My brewing methods look pretty consistently like this:

beehouse dripper
23.5g coffee to 360g water
205 water temp
bloom 45g for 40s, then pulse in ~100g increments to reach 2:45-3 min brewing time.
Grind size is medium-fine. About 1.2 turns on the LIDO 2.

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Sweetness is always there but some brewing methods show it off more. It seems like brewing methods with longer brew time do a better job of emphasizing sweetness instead of acidity. If you're using the same exact coffee and brewing method but getting different results my first thought is grind size, and my second thought is your coffee is stale and not extracting sweetness adequately. Try changing your brew method to using more coffee but grinding more coarse as time off roast elapses.

#14: Post by **happycat** » January 31st, 2016, 2:35 pm

For roasting, I can consistently get sweet coffee if it is washed process and I roast light with high charge temp and watch my rate of rise to ensure it glides down after the peak. That's on a Quest. For dry process I seem to be somewhat useless but am trying longer dry times.

For brewing, I can get consistently sweet wet process coffee with my Kalita wave, particularly with light roast coffees.

Ensure your grinder is producing a relatively even grind. I think my Bunn g1 has a "sweet spot" of consistency.

I have started stirring during bloom and find this works well with lighter roasts to not only get sweetness but also lovely acidity and richness.

January 31st, 2016, 7:47 pm

I find that beehouse drippers tend to over and under extract at the same time more than the V60s. I thought I wasn't good at brewing with it, then I tried a few local shops who use them, and the results were very similar. Almost tastes soupy

#16: Post by **Patagent** » February 1st, 2016, 12:31 am

Of the brewing methods I've tried, polish immersion with V60 filters makes the sweetest cups. The immersion goes about 2 minutes using water @185F. I usually do a couple of swirls with a spoon and decant into the V60.

I can't get consistently good results with Kalita. Kalita filters usually produce cups that border on being too acidic for my taste buds.

#17: Post by **MyCchiato** » February 1st, 2016, 3:43 am

treq10 wrote:I'm pretty sure I'm using sweet coffee because I get sweet results - just not consistently. But to be specific, right now I'm brewing Guatemala Cuilco -Finca El Regalito (from sweet maria's) roasted to city+.

I'm simply looking for some guidelines that help nail the sweetness with brewing. For example: brewing hot vs cold, coarser vs finer grind, brewing length, pouring method, etc.

the problem is always the heat, you are probably overheating it or your machine doesn't handle well the kind of ground coffee that get ruined. Ever tried different machines?

#18: Post by **johnny4lsu** » February 1st, 2016, 7:27 am

the problem is always the heat, you are probably overheating it

not sure what this means.. I brew at 210 degrees for most of my coffee and it's sweet as can be. Many pros advocate brewing not far off boil.

#19: Post by **Nunas** » February 1st, 2016, 4:28 pm

yeah. brewing is not where sweetness comes from.... for the most part, brew evenly and thoroughly and you'll taste what has been grown and roasted. Its by roasting good coffee evenly, neither baking nor stalling at any point during the roast that sweetness emerges. I sincerely do not believe it can be done in a small roaster with any degree of repeatability. See what the more well known shops are brewing and buy from those roasters for a solid reference point.

Hmmm...I both agree and disagree. I agree that if the roaster does not get the sweetness into the coffee, the brewing method will do little to make a sweet coffee out of it. But I disagree that it's only the big shops that can do it. I strive with my little roasters to impart some sweetness, with some modest success. I find that if I draw out the roast from just before 1C to 2C, taking 16 to 20 minutes overall (depending on the bean), I get good results, compared with just letting it blast through the stages. I agree with not letting it stall and also if it is drawn out to long after 1C the sweetness begins to abate.

#20: Post by **MyCchiato** » February 1st, 2016, 9:45 pm

johnny4lsu wrote:not sure what this means.. I brew at 210 degrees for most of my coffee and it's sweet as can be. Many pros advocate brewing not far off boil.

Temperature is always tricky, is my personal opinion though, that just because your machine says 205 it doesn't mean exactly the water is getting out like that when it is in contact with the coffee. There is huge difference like from 210 to 211 for example and it also depends on the coffee ground he is using, he said he is already using sweet coffee so to get it bitter he must be "burning" it for sure I don't see other way to get a bitter coffee out of a sweet one. Probably the grind he uses doesn't handle well the 205 degrees, though that beehouse dripper... it seems it doesn't help.