Hey guys; I've been brewing espresso at home (casually) for a couple years now, but I'm starting to care more about upping my game. I've been brewing with a bottomless portafilter to get a better idea of how well I'm pulling shots, but I'm having a bit of a problem. The shots seem to be coming out fine; they taste good, are coming out at a good speed, and have nice crema. As the shot's being extracted, it's coming out of the center with nice striping. But when I go to my knock box to get rid of the puck, it's almost never solid. It comes out in pieces and looks, well, shattered.

What could be happening here? If I use a regular, spouted portafilter and tamp with about the same pressure/grind, the puck stays nice and solid. If I tamp harder or make a finer grind for the naked portafilter to try getting a more solid puck, it ends up being too much and the shot doesn't come out well.

are you using the same basket and dose in both?

No, should've mentioned that probably. The baskets aren't the same, though they appear to be similarly sized. The bottomless portafilter's basket might be slightly larger, and the sides are less rounded at the bottom. The holes at the bottom of the bottomless portafilter also look like they might be slightly larger.

For context: the spouted portafilter is the stock portafilter that comes with QuickMill's Andreja Premium. The bottomless portafilter is a Rancilio.

I'm gonna hazard a guess: is the suggestion gonna be that I try putting the basket from my stock portafilter into the bottomless and see how it goes?

Perhaps it's your basket? There may be too much room between the top of the puck and the group head. Have you tried updosing to see if it makes any difference?

I've not used a Rocky grinder, thus can't comment on that. I've seen issues with pucks on LaPovoni Zip grinders and a LaPavoni PUB V where grinding finer and updosing helps. Going to a conical burr grinder helps as well. Though, not sure you're prepared for that.

Okay so I just put the basket from the regular portafilter into the bottomless to get a better comparison; the bottomless is definitely larger. The basket ends up being shorter than the portafilter by about half a centimeter. So I'm probably already updosing in the bottomless, since I tend to do that the same for any shot: grind into the portafilter until I can smooth it out across the top and then tamp.

I would definitely love to do a conical burr grinder; I've seen those in action at home and they're fantastic. Maybe a little pricey right now, but I plan on getting one (the Mazzer Mini is my hope) in the next year or two.

Yes, dose/grind/basket are the variables that will affect the puck, bottomless vs. spouted doesn't matter.

I never got a good grind ever from the Rocky. Impossible to dial in. After a year, I threw in the towel and moved on.
You would be better off getting your hands on a PeDe mokka grinder until you can get what you want. They're cheap and I found it easy to dial the grind in for a bottomless pf (which is all I use).

desmodici wrote:Yes, dose/grind/basket are the variables that will affect the puck, bottomless vs. spouted doesn't matter.

I swapped out the basket on the bottomless and I'm gonna give it a shot after work. Thanks!

doubleOsoul wrote:I never got a good grind ever from the Rocky. Impossible to dial in. After a year, I threw in the towel and moved on.

Yeah I'm about ready to do the same. I can never seem to get a great grind on the Rocky (and it's messy as hell).

Personally, I'd skip the Mazzer Mini. I have one, and for espresso, I feel it's not worth the money. Here's my personal list of suggested grinders in order of price (can't speak to the PeDe, as I've never seen nor played with one) -

• Pharos
  HG One
  DRM (La Cimbali) Hybrid MAX
  Compak K10
  Robur

Those are all conical (or hybrid conical/flat). There's also a Roscoe hand grinder that's spoken highly of, but I've not had the pleasure of trying it or seeing one.

davidcelis wrote:...when I go to my knock box to get rid of the puck, it's almost never solid. It comes out in pieces and looks, well, shattered.

It's been awhile since the question of puckology has come up. Searching on "puck" (title only) will yield plenty of discussions. Short answer: If you want firm pucks, dose higher or wait longer for the water to dissipate. Otherwise here's the key takeaway:

davidcelis wrote:The shots seem to be coming out fine; they taste good, are coming out at a good speed, and have nice crema.

Instead of puck examination, I think your time is better off spent on pursuits like How to Adjust Dose and Grind Setting by Taste.