Bialetti Venus 4-cup: Hardly any coffee extracted from boiler!

Coffee preparation techniques besides espresso like pourover.
EngEspr
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Joined: 8 years ago

#1: Post by EngEspr »

Ok guys, I desperately need your help here, because this thing is getting very upsetting.

Initially I had bought the 2-cup version of Bialetti Venus moka pot, but I exchanged it for the 4-cup version, because it would't yield the expected amount of coffee (almost one espresso cup instead of two). I also have the Hario Mini mill and Lavazza coffee beans (the classic ones).

The issue I am facing is that the new pot does not even allow any water to be pushed through the pipe into the basket! I have tried many different configurations: different bean coarseness, cold and pre-heated water, low to medium high temperature (that is 2-4 out of 6=max), no tamping. I have followed almost every advice I have found on the web, but the problem remains.

After the water starts to boil, considerable time passes (I mean like 2-3 min) without any coffee flowing through the pipe. The only thing that starts to flow is vapor with a smell of burnt (you might be able to distinguish that in the picture I provide herein). If I leave the pot on the stove for longer, some drips of highly concentrated coffee might come out gurgling and sputtering in an unsteady stream as well, with a terrible smell combination of burnt coffee and metal.

This failure has been repeated in over 5-6 attempts of coffee brewing...The only time I achieved a decent result was the very first time I used the pot yesterday.
It seems that there is not adequate pressure for the water to flow up through the funnel to the collection pot(?).

Please give me your insight. I liked the espresso-like coffee that these machines produce, so I would love to be able to use them correctly.
Could it be that I am still doing something wrong? Or it's a faulty pot?

Thank you for your time.

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yakster
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#2: Post by yakster »

Is the gasket clean, present, and in good shape? The gasket between the top and the base is responsible for the seal that allows the steam pressure to force the hot water up through the grinds and into the top. Is the filter plate clean? Do you see any steam come out of the over-pressure valve on the side?

-Chris

LMWDP # 272

EngEspr (original poster)
Posts: 4
Joined: 8 years ago

#3: Post by EngEspr (original poster) »

Is the gasket clean, present, and in good shape? The gasket between the top and the base is responsible for the seal that allows the steam pressure to force the hot water up through the grinds and into the top. Is the filter plate clean? Do you see any steam come out of the over-pressure valve on the side?
Thank you for your response first of all.

Yes, all parts are totally clean. I wash them with water between uses. And of course, they are new, I received them just yesterday. No, I can't see any steam coming out of the side valve, the steam only comes out of the collection pot.

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yakster
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#4: Post by yakster »

As long as the bottom of the filter/funnel is below the level of the water (instructions are usually to fill the pot to just below the valve) then the steam pressure should not be able to exit the top of the pot in the collection point without first pushing the water through. It seems like it might be a pressure leak or a water level issue, or I'm stumped. I found a diagram for the Venus. Maybe it's in mourning for Renato Bialetti.

-Chris

LMWDP # 272

jpender
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#5: Post by jpender »

These devices are not terribly complicated. That said it is hard to diagnose without seeing more detail.

A couple of random guesses:
1) Water level too low? Usually the fill level is just below the valve but in any case it must be higher than the bottom of the funnel tube.
2) Cracked funnel? If there is a leak where the funnel tube meets the funnel basket steam will escape but no water.

EngEspr (original poster)
Posts: 4
Joined: 8 years ago

#6: Post by EngEspr (original poster) »

These devices are not terribly complicated. That said it is hard to diagnose without seeing more detail.

A couple of random guesses:
1) Water level too low? Usually the fill level is just below the valve but in any case it must be higher than the bottom of the funnel tube.
2) Cracked funnel? If there is a leak where the funnel tube meets the funnel basket steam will escape but no water.
1) No, I fill the boiler just up to the bottom level of the valve. The bottom of the funnel is undoubtedly submerged into the water.

2) I'm not sure about that, but with a first inspection, I can't notice any crack on the funnel. The interesting thing, however, is that, after water starts boiling, continuous steams start to escape through the pipe, instead of coffee.

EngEspr (original poster)
Posts: 4
Joined: 8 years ago

#7: Post by EngEspr (original poster) »

OK guys, it seems that there was some progress here.

I managed to get around 150ml of coffee, using cold water and medium heat. Perhaps the reason that I kept getting only steam is that I wasn't tightening sufficiently the collection pot onto the boiler. Now that I did that, the pot seemed to work fine.

I'll let you know if the problem appears again.

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bluayeddvl
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#8: Post by bluayeddvl »

i had similar growing pains with my first moka pot and your initial post read quite familiar to me.

something else to consider is that you may also be using a grind that is too fine and it's choking the pot/filter. initial description really makes me lean this way.

there's a lot of info in this forum, and out there in the webs, not to mention the balancing act between bliss and rubbish in the pot trying to get dialed in for your own tastes is a delicate one. and the ideas and suggestions are as common as belly buttons.

when you do finally get an extraction, and you're tidying up, what's the consistency of the grinds in the filter? are they coming out in a slurry, or can you drop them out in a puck? what i've found is that many call for a grind more to the fine end of things. a couple steps off of espresso in some i've read. that will never work in my pots. they'd choke.

my own experience has shown that what pulls the best results is something that is in fact closer to a drip grind. just course enough to create a puck. extractions are rarely bitter (unless i'm dialing in with a new bean). you can go finer as you get closer to your own ideal tastes. but start on the coarser side and work your way in. sour, go finer. bitter, go more coarse. once you get that sorted, you can play with dose to find that sweet spot that works best for you. it's about as easy to replicate as that time i found a stash of unicorn milk that had been left unattended by the leprechauns, so don't be afraid to keep notes as you go, they can only help you dial it in.

ah, and mind your heat too. best not to go above medium or you run the risk of over extracting in a blink. i start with hot water if i'm in a rush, but typically use room temp spring water and favour the medium-low on my gas range (using the simmer burner)

experiment with your timing too. i find for my own tastes that a shorter extraction works better and really draws out the chocolate and caramel flavours. removing from the heat the moment it starts to blond (and before it sputters) and then running cold water over the base (or wrapping in a cold towel as some have suggested) to halt the process.

examples of some numbers that have worked for me, and may be a reasonable starting point for others are;
3cup holds 150ml water and i use 14g to end up with an extraction between 35-50
6cup holds 300ml water and i use 28g to end up with an extraction between 75-100
9cup holds 450ml water and i use 42g to end up with an extraction between 150-170, sometimes up to 200

all of these are removed from the heat source when the collection in the upper reservoir is just below the base of the spout...using Bialetti Moka Express in all examples.

definitely don't want to tell you how to make your cuppa, but maybe you can use something here to get you closer to where you want to be with your own. it's a journey alright, so pack a snack, you'll be on it for a while ;-) but it's a fun one, and is fairly sciency whiency. plus hey, you'll get some really stellar brews to encourage you to keep going and trying different settings and beans and roasts and and and...