Moral of this post: A used Super Jolly should be the standard entry level grinder and one of the first things on your coffee wish list (even before a machine).

I "got into" espresso after a trip to Italy a few years ago. Budget limits being what they are, I re-built an ebay machine (basic Gaggia Espresso) on the cheap and then upgraded it over the years with the usual stuff as I learned to "need" them (dynamically adjusted OPV, filtered water system, PID, PID alarm steam control, bottomless PF, silvia steam arm). Grinder was the only new item I purchased and it was the entry level solis maestro.

I've read how important grinders are, but I didn't completely believe it and I couldn't afford the hundreds of dollars required anyway. After all, my entire modified espresso machine is less than $200. And dialed in, the maestro and gaggia were giving me better shots than I could get in just about any shop in town.

But I finally sucked it up and picked up a SJ (on craig's list) for $400 last week. Without the hopper, it is no bigger than the machine and fits fine under the cabinets. It had been used less than 10 months as a decaff grinder in a shop that didn't make it so it looks new and the burrs are still good and sharp. Found zero setting per online instructions and backed off a bit from there to dial it in within a pound of beans.

Every one of the modifications I've made to the machine increased the consistency or quality (or both) of my shots enough that it was objectively worth doing the mod. But if I had to do it all over again, I would get a used SJ before even getting a machine. Because the combined benefits obtained by modding the machine have been greatly overshadowed by switching to this grinder. It is truly amazing the consistency of shots and the quality of shots we can get from this set up now. The worst shot I have pulled with this grinder was better than the best shot I've pulled in 4 years with the maestro.

I made my wife a cap the other day and she did not believe that I hadn't put in a shot of hot chocolate. Seemingly random issues with bitterness have disappeared, overall taste is better at all levels, flavor distinctions are even better as we're able to really differentiate among various blends. Only new problem is that the grinder has shown me my tamping is weak/defective as I now get channeling problems that I haven't seen in years.

So back to the moral. Mark as true all the stuff you hear about how important a grinder is to espresso. Used SJ's are all over the place now -- it is easily the best $ you can spend for your espresso, in my opinion, and should be considered the standard entry level grinder for espresso regardless of machine.

good luck,
mike

Mike, that is an outstanding post! This should be REQUIRED reading for all espresso nubies IMHO. It echoes a similar path that I came to realize .

Thanks, for the reminder.

Steve, in Ft. Worth

Regrettably, one size does not fit all. Super Jolly's are great for single espresso fanatics with lots of counter space and headroom or espresso fanatic couples with the same real estate.

Most people, especially wives, hate the look of monster grinders in their kitchens or bars and will wreak acts of vengeance on any husband or b/f that brings one home. Removing the hopper only solves the overhead real estate issue, while compromising the machine's performance by creating a popcorning grinding environment. And they're still ugly.

That being said, if I were single and had bar space with the headroom, I'm sure I'd have an unmodified SJ (or some other "Titan" grinder). But, in my much happier married state, my low-profile La Cimbali Max Hybrid is the right solution.

What did the SJ replace? a whirrly bird grinder? a fake burr grinder?

To Marshall's point, just about any of the "titan" grinders has an exceptionally low WAF*. Should you invest in this hunk of machine, you may find yourself in the position of having to quickly (and repeatedly, over the course of many days/weeks/months) prove that the purchase was worthwhile. Pulling the cappuccino for your wife was a good idea. If I may boldly suggest that you pull her another cappuccino using the Maestro... give her a good reason to prefer the SJ.

That said, your experience echos that of many others who count themselves among the H-B membership, and it's another mark in the "yes" column for those keeping score at home.

FWIW, I've de-dosered and de-timered my SJ. It ain't pretty, but it keeps the significant other in a state of near-blissful latte consumption. This one's a keeper, and the SO can stick around too .

Oh, and

Marshall wrote:Most people, especially wives, hate the look of monster grinders in their kitchens or bars and will wreak acts of vengeance on any husband or b/f that brings one home. Removing the hopper only solves the overhead real estate issue, while compromising the machine's performance by creating a popcorning grinding environment. And they're still ugly.

Popcorning can be mitigated by placing a tamper, backflush insert, or other similarly fitting device in the throat, on top of the beans. Short of putting a lampshade on top of the SJ, you won't have much of a choice in the looks dept. If you've got the space, an appliance garage would be very useful.

Also, I've found that putting slider feet on the grinder helps to move it around on the countertop with minimal effort. Works for the espresso machine, too.

-s.

*Wife Acceptance Factor

Marshall wrote:That being said, if I were single and had bar space with the headroom, I'm sure I'd have an unmodified SJ (or some other "Titan" grinder). But, in my much happier married state, my low-profile La Cimbali Max Hybrid is the right solution.

Well if we're going to talk aesthetics and female acceptance, I find the Mazzer Super Jolly far more attractive than the Cimbali Max Hybrid. But if the CMH is just the right height for you to tuck it under your cabinets, I can see the rationale.

portamento wrote:Well if we're going to talk aesthetics and female acceptance, I find the Mazzer Super Jolly far more attractive than the Cimbali Max Hybrid. But if the CMH is just the right height for you to tuck it under your cabinets, I can see the rationale.

Scale is important, too.

Very true sir. Glad to hear you are enjoying your new grinder.

IMHO, the newer model mazzers look nice, hopper and all. When compared to the majority of Ebay/CL's finds, the new ones looks like nice grinders, the used guys, with matte doser instead of polished, chipped and peeling paint, coffee stains, don't look nearly as nice. But they grind the same.

Given the choice, Id take a MaxHybrid over the SJ, but it wouldnt work for me. I have 3 to 4 different coffees on my bench at any given time, and rarely do I only pull one of those during a sesh. Add to that, that I like wieghing and adding per dose, and the VMH prob wouldnt work for me. Its a shame.

And what you said about your wife not believing you about not adding a shot of hot chocolate to the latte, I can totally relate to that. When I first got Anita/Major dialed in... The first milk drink I made surprised me with how much the espresso came through the milk compared to what I used to have. Its awesome, even many months later, as this still happens everyday. To a lesser extent, of course, but awesome still.

According to W-D-H info on the Chris' Coffee website:

CMH: 8.5 (6.5 + 2) x 14 x 17
Super Jolly: 7.75 x 10.5 x 23.5
Major: 8 x 12.25 x 24.5

The height of my Major without the ginormous hopper is only 15 inches. A mini-hopper adds about 3 inches. The height of the SJ is probably an inch less. There may be reasons to prefer the CMH, but an argument based on grinder dimensions is pretty weak.

Mine is bigger than yours, or smaller than yours, does not matter does it?

Taste the drink.

Do what fits your space.

-Cecil

marrahm wrote:Used SJ's are all over the place now -- it is easily the best $ you can spend for your espresso, in my opinion, and should be considered the standard entry level grinder for espresso regardless of machine.

I thought it was the best money I could have spent, and I don't even have an espresso machine yet.

Yup, after pouring through internet sites for months, I really took advice like this to heart. Aren't you proud... I never owned a blade grinder, instead skipping up to the Bodum Antigua, a very decent conical burr grinder (that my friend is now enjoying). I made great coffee using an Aeropress almost exclusively. I decided that I was committed to pursuing great coffee further, so I found a used Super Jolly on Craigslist for under 400 dollars. And it improved my Aeropress coffee tremendously as well!

Seriously, the craftsmanship is just stunning on the Super Jolly, and all grinders in its class. They are immensely satisfying to use, and they promote quality in the cup. I feel really confident that when I do get an espresso machine I will have the tools to make exceptional espresso.

Newbies like me, go get yourself a great grinder. You will never have regrets about doing so.

As for WAF, I was worried about being banished to grind in the basement or some other distant place, but when I brought home my gently used Super Jolly ('07) her comment was "wow that is beautiful." She does love good coffee and good food so that didn't hurt. I imagine a Robur might be a different story, but I'm such a big fan of the SJ that we will probably never find out about other grinders.

RapidCoffee wrote:According to W-D-H info on the Chris' Coffee website:

CMH: 8.5 (6.5 + 2) x 14 x 17
Super Jolly: 7.75 x 10.5 x 23.5
Major: 8 x 12.25 x 24.5

The height of my Major without the ginormous hopper is only 15 inches. A mini-hopper adds about 3 inches. The height of the SJ is probably an inch less. There may be reasons to prefer the CMH, but an argument based on grinder dimensions is pretty weak.

My actual measurements (taken from the Major on my kitchen counter) show that the "short" Mini hopper (versus the standard Mini hopper) adds 4.5" in height to the grinder. If you're using the hopper lid, which has a slightly raised profile in the center, then the total increases in height will be 4.75". The difference between 3" and 4.75" is insignificant for folks like me with no overhead cabinet clearance issues but can be crucial for others.

Used Super Jolly grinders have a very, very flat depreciation curve. There can be precious few other items you will buy in your life that are like this. I think if i could have converted my 401k into a "USJ - Used Super Jolly" Fund over the last 18 months I would have.

Well chosen. Revel in the lack of plastic and ornamentation.

WES

Great post!

So many of us are tempted to think that an incredibly sophisticated machine with multiple boilers, LEDs and microprocessor controls is going to give great espresso but skimp on "ugly" grinders which seem to be nothing more technologically exciting than two big metal plates and a motor dressed up like R2D2 (but can be hidden in broom cupboards, conservatories, etc).

In the same way we might get all fussed about the whizz-kid latest machinery but don't really search out the SOs that are actually suitable for great espresso (rather than just scoring high in conventional cupping or having SHB after their name).

Its the bean and the grinder that most influences what's in the cup.

I was worried when I got my battered and bruised Major, complete with paint missing from every edge. I offered to paint it, but my wife said she preferred it in it's "distressed" state. I didn't argue

And if you are diligent checking eBay and especially various Craigslist cities you can often do much better than $400 for a used SJ or Major. Past few years purchased 6 used SJ's and 2 Majors all under $300, one SJ for $100 even, and one Sj just today for a cool $60. So what if missing both lids and hopper broken, who cares at that price when the motor purrs like a kitten, upper carrier threads not stripped, lower burr rotation appeared level and even had the old on/off/start switch I look for! (Easily modified to normal on/off operation so can be plugged in Gralab timer)

Oh yes, very possible indeed.

Personally, I think Criagslist has the best potential for the uber deals, but they surely can be found on Ebay as well.

Patience and website stalking is all that is needed.

But, if you dont feel like waiting/searching, IMO, $450 should be the max unless its in very nice condition/Newer model

miKe mcKoffee wrote:And if you are diligent checking eBay and especially various Craigslist cities you can often do much better than $400 for a used SJ or Major. Past few years purchased 6 used SJ's and 2 Majors all under $300, one SJ for $100 even, and one Sj just today for a cool $60. So what if missing both lids and hopper broken, who cares at that price when the motor purrs like a kitten, upper carrier threads not stripped, lower burr rotation appeared level and even had the old on/off/start switch I look for! (Easily modified to normal on/off operation so can be plugged in Gralab timer)

You must live in a completely different area of the country than I do...espresso here is relatively rare, and so are the deals on Craigslist.

miKe mcKoffee wrote:And if you are diligent checking eBay and especially various Craigslist cities you can often do much better than $400 for a used SJ or Major. Past few years purchased 6 used SJ's and 2 Majors all under $300, one SJ for $100 even, and one Sj just today for a cool $60. So what if missing both lids and hopper broken, who cares at that price when the motor purrs like a kitten, upper carrier threads not stripped, lower burr rotation appeared level and even had the old on/off/start switch I look for! (Easily modified to normal on/off operation so can be plugged in Gralab timer)

There are some good deals here in southern New England also. I paid $150 for one of my SJs a year ago & $175 for two Majors last May! Same modified switches on my Majors with one of them running off a Time-O-Lite timer I got off Ebay for $3.50.