For the nothing it's worth, Mazzer's entire line up of grinders -- from Mini to Robur E -- seems very dated to me. None of them would be my choice at any price/performance level compared to at least one or another grinder from Anfim, Baratza, Ceado, Compak, Macap, Mahlkonig, and possibly etc.

Does Mazzer's continuing appeal go beyond reputation? In other words, what's the rationale to buy a new one?

And... because it's killing me... why a duck?

Rich

I love the way they look.
They have a stepless one hand operated grind adjustment system.They are build like a tank.They perform great.Will never let you down.

Mazzer is still the leader of the pack, when it come down to longevity and reliability, it might not have the prettiest of designs or the most innovative solutions, but they have just recently released the Kold, so it's not like they aren't trying to improve, and the price is just 350 more then a Robur E, and I guess that the price will drop even further over the next year or so.

But I agree with you that for a home barista the extra build quality and the reliability you get from it, is really not needed, we are not going to put the kind of stress on our equipment that Mazzer are build to handle. The Mythos have been put to the test and my local coffee shop, don't think it can handle the stress in a very high setting.

k10 Fresh had also been replaced with mazzers as it where not reliable enough, other places I am familiar with.

I suppose that depends on what you mean by "looks" and "dated." Also, are you asking the question in the home or cafe context? (I assume the former.)

The most functionally modern commercially available single-dosing large conical grinder is the Elektra Niño. It looks to me decidedly old-fashioned. The Compak grinders have superficially much more modern styling, but functionally are not any more "modern" than their Mazzer counterparts. The NS Mythos is very modern in design, but I've seen no raves about its functions as superior in HB forums or elsewhere. It looks to me like something out of The Chronicles of Riddick. Baratza's Vario and Forte have very modern functionality, but their styling is derivative of the cheap Solis grinders of the 90's from which they evolved. Mazzer's styling is very dated, though it has been updated regularly over the decades. The functional designs of Mazzers, Macaps, Compaks and Ceados are essentially identical, and ancient, though the details and manufacturing techniques have been modernized over the years.

As home users, a lot of our choices are a bit irrational, but most would not argue with the results in the cup of a titan conical or large flat burr. We perform gyrations to single-dose with large grinders, or tolerate hopper-dosing. Some cheat and buy an HG One, and have to perform gyrations to accomplish the distribution that the high-end motorized grinders produce effortlessly. We chose our grinders based on flavor profiles from the burrsets, and our preferred compromises in terms of usability.

Mazzer has massive commercial market penetration due to history, tradition, reputation for build quality and reliability. Other companies no doubt make equally good grinders with less market presence. Many of the Mazzers in homes now are used Super Jollys from cafes such as Starbucks. In the grand scheme of things, relatively few of us have the higher-end models. If that were not the case, Mazzer or another company would already make a $2500 grinder, perfectly optimized for home use.

I faced your question recently, when I decided I wanted again to have a motorized large conical grinder at home for hopper dosing.. I bought the Robur E, over other choices, because I found a barely-used (but broken in... yes!) one at an outstanding price. I probably would have purchased a Compak K10 or F10 if I had to buy new, based on identical functionality, attractive styling, and better price.

Just my two cents...

- Mike

malling wrote:Mazzer is still the leader of the pack, when it come down to longevity and reliability

Ditto. For instance, almost every grinder manufacturer makes grinders with 64mm flats, 80mm flats, and the 68/71mm conical. The Mazzer versions always have larger motors and better starters than their competition. However, these strengths are of less use to amateurs; so the extra costs they entail may not be wise for us.

Mazzer is also a perverse company when judged by any capitalist standard. They've been in the same plant since they've opened, and employ the same multi-generational group of workers. Finally, they shut down after they've produced the year's quota of machines. Think of a peasant village that produces grinders instead of rye; and you have Mazzer. With increased competition, they are at least available new. In past years, they were easiest to buy used.

another_jim wrote:The Mazzer versions always have larger motors and better starters than their competition.

In the past, yes. But no longer true. Ceado and Compak, for example, have upped the "electrics and mechanicals" game in their respective big conicals to or beyond the Robur level.

Thinking about the forward march by other brands is part of the reason I started the thread.

By the way Jim, I found your "perverse company" thoughts added charm to what my impression about Mazzer. I love that stuff.

Rich

Form follows function. If I want pretty I'll buy art (or more often than not, make some). Their massive upper burr retention and adjustment system is highly impressive. All but the Mini are commercial machines. The burrs in my Kony will outlast me. If I can't get to my gun, the upper burr carrier is my third line of defense (after my German Shepherd). Dated looking? Subjective. Dated function? Not even close.

I understand and respect what you're saying, but it's more poetry than practicality. In which ways is a Kony E better than a Ceado E92 or Compak F10?

To clarify, when I said the Mazzer product line looked dated relative to other manufacturers', I wasn't referring to appearance. Rather, while Mazzer offerings stayed static, a lot of really good grinders hit the market at every level Mazzer serves.

Rich

boar_d_laze wrote:And that makes the Kony better than, for instance, a Compak F10 in what way?

1 - Mazzer has not changed the model name of the Kony so it is easier to find on the Internet.
2 - The Kony does not have electronics or other complications to go wrong. It is a VERY simple and sound piece of engineering.
3 - I can easily reach a brush all the way into the grind chamber from the outlet in the doser to have near-zero retention. Sure it is a hassle, but the Compak rep at the last(?) SCAA show told me that it retained about one or two grams iirc.
4 - The Kony costs about $500 less than the Compak.

... You asked. Some of that is subjective, and some is based on the way I work at the coffee bench, but there you go.

Randy G. wrote:Form follows function. If I want pretty I'll buy art (or more often than not, make some).

That wasn't true when Mies said it and isn't true now. If it were, Kees would be out of business and Slayer wouldn't be far behind. There would also be no eye candy aftermarket products.

Beauty matters a lot and always has for espresso machines. The more interesting question is why it has mostly been ignored for commercial grinders, which by and large are simply functional and no more.