TomC wrote:I'm not sure it's possible to pull a better shot of espresso than one pulled on a Cremina.

I have a Cremina which more and more is becoming my go to machine leaving the Slayer on the back burner. If I lived in Switzerland I would buy one without hesitation. Not only are they capable of pulling the best shots possible, it is a pleasure to behold their beauty and workmanship. I don't believe the learning curve for the Cremina would be more difficult than for a spring loaded lever machine.

yoshi005 wrote:Reiss, the founder of Londinium, states that the new Londinizm R is better suited for lighter roasts and higher doses.

I might add that context of Reiss' statement should be taken into consideration; he was speaking of the comparison between the original L1 and the new LR. Both machines are perfectly capable of excellent results with medium and darker roasts and with moderate doses. The LR adds the capability of getting optimum results with lighter roasts and higher doses.

The LR is a superb machine, and among spring levers, is especially forgiving. No reason for a newbie to avoid it...think of the money you will save by buying a machine that you won't need to upgrade!

fdoenz wrote:Hello everybody,
I am a sixty four year old newbie considering to buy a spring lever espresso machine?
I intensively read the posts about the Profitec 800 and Londiniums, nobody seems to have experience in both? I think the profitec is the most used here in Switzerland, and the factory is pretty close in case of problems?
Any opinions or advice are welcomed and many thanky in advance!

Have you made a decision, Francesco? I have been researching machines for the last month and my decision came down to the same two machines. I ordered a Londinium R last week. I am sure that I would be happy with either, but my decision to go with a lever machines over a double boiler semiautonomous machine was based in part on the simple, back to basics appeal of the lever. The Londinium just seemed to fit that better to me.

fdoenz wrote:and the romance of a lever machine also, I am rather allergic to modern stuff with electronics, worse wired with wifi, or fully automatic! I will just take the time it needs to learn manipulating it, and learning is itself a pleasure! Living ins Switzerland of course I considered the olympia cremina, but to begin with a lever may be spring is helpful in the begining, and in some way I must admit that the cremina looks to modest, hard to explain, and yes in some way this feeling is stupid! A Londinium, Profitec 800, Quick Mill Achille look more splendid,this of course is subjective and has nothing to do with performance!
So I hope you can feel what kind of machine I have to consider! Many thanks again!

If you are looking at levers for their non-modern, nostalgic appeal then have you considered a restored vintage one? I pull much of my espresso from a vintage Faema machine and would put my shots up against anything pulled from Slayer or even a Cremina, and I also happen to own a Cremina and use it on a daily basis at the office. There are quite a few very capable vintage machine restorers in Europe who have restored machines available, including Enrico Maltoni out of Italy and Chromes d'Antan out of France, who is also a member here. The basic architecture for most lever machines hasn't really changed in 60 years. For example, with the exception of the boiler PID the Profitec functions pretty much exactly as a dipper machine would from the 50's.

Again many thanks for all these interesting inputs....delving into a new world of knowledge is exciting, and realizing that there are no limits to a new interest or hobby is also intimidating...I am privileged to have plenty of time in my actual professionnal situation, so I will take the time to learn, and yes Ron, for the time being I am considering the Profitec first, I know it is not the most high end or exotic among the choices, but modestly I think to start with a robust machine, already on the market for some time, without first series problems, with already a good userbase, a classic lever design, and already with many customization possibilities on the market to satisfy desire to tweak and customize. It will be my learning machine to allow me to progress before getting into fancy stuff, it's itching to buy right away but would not be wise !
I must say it's exciting to see how diverse the possibilities are!
And yes, of course I will visit Olympia in Glarus,but it might be a latter choice !
Just ordered the book :
https://www.amazon.de/dp/3772370497/ref ... 61_TE_item

And thanks Redbone fort he list, food for thought!

I just recently bought a cremina and I love it. Needless to say that the shots are amazing. I started off with a forgiving coffee, and I must say that the results even for a newbie like me are very good. I also have a vintage lever (Brugnetti Aurora) and a LM linea mini, but I don't use those much recently, they will have to go soon.

I guess you are right about your choice, it's just stupid that I am not attracted by it's look, it looks too modest in a way, and there are few options to mod it...and may be a spring lever to begin with is easier for consistent results....hard to decide, I guess I will make the trip to Glarus...thanks for your opinion!

I'm sure you will get great results with all the machines you are considering given that you invest in a good grinder. I just wanted to say that you should not write off the cremina just because it's not as fancy as the bigger levers

fdoenz wrote:I guess you are right about your choice, it's just stupid that I am not attracted by it's look, it looks too modest in a way, and there are few options to mod it...and may be a spring lever to begin with is easier for consistent results....hard to decide, I guess I will make the trip to Glarus...thanks for your opinion!

It's not stupid! You have to look at it every day! Make the choice that you can live with in the kitchen that will give you the best results!

Have you looked through the lever machine gallery thread? There are some amazingly beautiful Art Deco machines, but if I brought one of them into the kitchen both the machine and I would be living in the garage

Yes , won't wright the cremina off until seen, and Ron many thanks for the hint to the lever gallery...247 pages...will go through it in between cases....will take some time!!! Wonderful new hobby, and I guess whatever first machine, it will not be the last....