Which dual boiler espresso machine? - Page 2

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
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Compass Coffee
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Joined: 19 years ago

#11: Post by Compass Coffee »

LaDan wrote:Buy a refurbished La Marzocco Linea for $3000.
Stock a Linea (any number of groups) would wipe out the machines in question in steaming power BUT fall short in some other ways believe it or not.

First walk up idle brew temp has a wide swing on a stock Linea. I'm not talking just a couple degrees either.

Second on a 1,2 or 4 group Linea shot to shot recovery time actually better with the Vibiemme Double Domobar. Linea 3 group you can pull back to back non-stop without brew temp drop because of it's huge brew boiler. 4 group uses two 2 group boilers so if you alternate left and right pairs of groups you're ok but you must alternate brew boilers. Because Lineas lack brew boiler HX inlet preheat...

IF it's an older Linea AV the flowmeter is outside the saturate group which means regardless if upgraded PID'd spot on brew boiler temp must flush group assembly (the external flowmeter loop) up to temp before pulling the shot. One long flush don't cut it, best results about three 2 to 3oz flushes allowing boiler to come back up to temp inbetween (on 1,2 or 4grp - 3grp pretty much just flush flush flush and go for it). One maybe two if you want 2oz flushes on these PID E61 groups and group fully up to temp, they don't idle nearly as much lower as the Linea AV loop. Or spend 7 or 8 hundred for the new style group with flowmeter inside.

And of course need 220v, but only 15A 220V for 1gr Linea. Or 1gr Speedster. (someday :cry: )
Mike McGinness

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BigBlaze (original poster)
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Joined: 12 years ago

#12: Post by BigBlaze (original poster) »

I love the design of the R58, but I decide I will go with,

Izzo Alex Duetto III Dual Boiler w/ PID

After hours of browsing the web, I was hesitating between the R58, Vibiemme and Izzo.

For great design, my first pick will be the R58, I love the way it looks, but this new machine does not inspire me confidence from what I have found.

In my how opinion, the Izzo Alex Duetto III Dual Boiler w/ PID look really better then the Vibiemme Double Domobar Version 3 w/ PID.

I will let you know where I will buy the Izzo. It will be online, because I can't find a Izzo retailer in Montreal...

Me and my wife will use this machine mostly for cappuccino.

Thank you,

BigBlaze

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HB
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#13: Post by HB »

BigBlaze wrote:I can decide between those 3, maybe this survey can help me decide...
BigBlaze wrote:I decide I will go with Izzo Alex Duetto III Dual Boiler w/ PID
What a relief! Here's a list of the threads you've started about your potential purchase:
  1. Which dual boiler espresso machine?
  2. Rocket R58 or Expobar Brewtus IV for Cappuccino
  3. Recommended PID and dual boiler espresso machines
  4. Steaming Milk - How Do You Rate: Izzo Alex Duetto 3.0
  5. Lever vs. Pump for BEST shot for $2500???
  6. 1500$ Budget. Need Buying Advice For NEW Espresso Machine
  7. Suggestion to Upgrade from Ascaso iSteel 1
  8. I'm shopping for a new espresso machine
By spreading the discussion among more than half-a-dozen threads, members cannot avoid repeating themselves. To future posters -- please pick one thread and stick with it to the end. Thanks.
Dan Kehn

wilson fisk
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Joined: 11 years ago

#14: Post by wilson fisk »

spitz -
what made you choose the VBM over the izzo?

Compass Coffee -
I read your list of reasons but was there anything else that swayed your decision?

-----

Is the non-insulated steam arm on the VBM a con or is it a non-issue?

I'm leaning towards the VBM right now strictly because it was designed for 15 amp use. The duetto 3 still needs a conversion plug when buying the 15 amp. It also looks a bit more solid than the duetto, even though they reinforced the group.

The only reason I would buy the Duetto 3 is for looks, warmup time, the insulated steam arm (which ive already seen people complain about) and do to business with chris coffee. I would be buying the VBM through stefano's. I've also seen way more discussion (problems/annoyances/complaints) about the duettos than the vibiemme.

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Spitz.me
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#15: Post by Spitz.me »

As I'm sure you've read by now, you are warned to buy what WILL suit your needs BEST.

My needs were easy for many machines to meet:

1) No HX flushing
2) Minimize water use
3) plumb-able machine
4) More quiet then current machine.
5) Little fuss - Great Espresso performer - regardless of grouphead (lever, or e61, etc.)
6) Really wanted ability to change temperature of water in a more controlled way than flush, flush, fluuuuuuuuush....
7) Something I've always wanted, a brew pressure gauge.

The list seems fairly long, but there are several machines that hit the nail on the head. I knew what I didn't like about my current setup and what I could stand to live with if I had to compromise with a new machine. Not all of the machines I considered have been widely available for long, for instance the Rocket R58 and the Londinium 1, but the selection has grown enough to make you feel insecure about a final decision. However, my kicker was price. For the life of me I didn't want to spend $3k, give or take $200-$300.

I made my top 4 picks of machines I WOULD buy. If a deal that came across as something I couldn't pass up for any of those machines, I take it in a heartbeat. It happened and I did.

Got an incredible deal on a VBM DD v3 and the rest is history, and hopefully it continues to be the performer it has shaped up to be for me.

Keep in mind, there are no bad choices, they're just different. Mostly the differences will be between different types, technically speaking, like HX, DB, Lever group, etc.

One last thing to edit in...

There's something I never really thought mattered to me when I started using my new machine. I REALLY LIKE using a lever to operate these semi-autos, compared to pressing buttons.
LMWDP #670

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Compass Coffee
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#16: Post by Compass Coffee »

The insulated steam arms on Alex restrict available steam released. Some people like that slowed steaming some don't (like me used to commercial machine steam power). Easily converted to regular steam arm simply pulling the plastic tube out of the inside of the wand.

Regular steam arms can burn you (duh). As can the exposed E61 group, or your stove burner or a burning log. Common sense and usage apply - don't grab it if it's hot!

Functionally it could have been a coin toss for me Duetto versus DD. I preferred PID control and gauge placement on DD and preferred DD's sleek stark clean lines. Granted I'm used to and like the straight lines of my coffeehouse Lineas too! Between the two I honestly think how you'll feel seeing it on your counter for years a very valid major factor. That said if I could afford it would be totally different way out there look (plus performance) - Speedster my Bucket List espresso machine. :wink:

In some ways might have preferred the Duetto in one respect. Suspect running in 20A mode back to back shot recovery might be a tad better than DD, that said DDs recovery ok even with my rather fast barista skills. Also as I mentioned elsewhere when traveling with DD the Duetto would have been better with larger water tank, way minor consideration.
Mike McGinness

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BigBlaze (original poster)
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#17: Post by BigBlaze (original poster) »

I had to choose between:

- Izzo Alex Duetto 3
and
- Rocket R58

At first the Izzo was my pick because this product is on the market since many years and the overall I read on it was very positive. New Duetto has a fresh new look, important if I had to spend 2500$.

I tried to find a reseller in Montreal, but did not find.

In the mean time, I find a store with the R58 display and a few boxes in stock. I have to say, I love the design of the R58. CoffeeGeek has lots of topics about this Rocket. They convince me!

When spending that amount, if you have the option to:

- buy from a reseller in town touch and see the product
or
- look at images on the web and buy online

I want with the first option. this way, if I had a issue with the machine, it will simple to bring it where I bought it.

My R58 is already in my counter, I can't wait to try it.

Thank everybody for helping me upgrading from my Ascaso Duo Prof Tronic.

BigBlaze

seageral
Posts: 55
Joined: 11 years ago

#18: Post by seageral »

spitz - what are the four machines you would have been comfortable with?

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Spitz.me
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#19: Post by Spitz.me »

Alex Duetto II - considered paying extra for 'extras' on the Duetto III
VBM DoubleDomo Super v3 (what I got)
Londinium I
Expobar Brewtus IV

You'll read user 'likes' and 'dislikes' for every machine. For instance, it's been mentioned that someone chose the VBM DD over the Expobar because of PERCEIVED quality of the machine. I don't personally know as I haven't literally reviewed and compared any of these machines directly. I just know that from a technical standpoint and user experience posts, either of these machines would have been, to ME, the same awesome upgrade I was looking for.
LMWDP #670

seageral
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Joined: 11 years ago

#20: Post by seageral »

thanks spitz. i'm replacing an expobar brewtus II after 4-5 years because it keeps breaking down on me, so i'm going to stay away from the brewtus iv.

i like the idea of the dream but just don't like the looks.