zin1953 wrote:Keep in mind a) this is ONLY a partial list, and b) actual street prices will be less . . .

I would add the Macap MXK Conical at $850 delivered from 1st Line and the Cimbali Max Hybrid from ChrisCoffee. Both are doser grinders so no timed dosing, but both will have superior grind quality as well.

Oh yes, also the K-10 doserless for under $2k from ChrisCoffee

I'm very happy with my K10WBC & with a street price of $1220 (black) it's the bargain of the 68mm conical burr class. The doser has a much nicer feel then the Mazzers I've owned & the only mod I felt the doser needed was to apply velcro strips on the lower sweeper vanes. If you want digital timing you can pick up an enlargement timer off Ebay for $20-$70.

Actual grounds retention if you grind with beans in the hopper is no where near as high as I've seen posted on the forums. The stock chute holds 3 grams tops & that can easily be swept into each dose. I modified the chute for faster flow & better access so I see about 2 grams in the chute plus I'm able to easily pull grounds from the burr chamber for each dose. The K10 produces light fluffy grounds that come out of the doser clump free requiring no hands on attention. I can't say the same for the K30 I tried out but supposedly the latest version is better in this regard.

zin1953 wrote:If I ever upgrade my office setup, however, it might be to sell off the CMH and replace it with a Baratza Vario.

Jason, I suspect you've probably covered this somewhere, but I remember reading (several times actually) that the biggest improvement in your coffee came when you got the CMH grinder. Curious why you might like the Vario better? Quieter? Less messy? Better grind? Just wondering as I read this. Michael

I liked my Mahlkonig K30 Vario so much that I got a second one. I use one for espresso blends and the second one for single origins. My intent was to get a ProM but got tired of waiting. Glad I did. I love the quietness, speed, cleanliness and very low waste.

It is certainly true that "the biggest improvement I ever made" in terms of a grinder was the upgrade from a Mazzer Mini to a Cimbali Max Hybrid (CMH). I still stand behind that statement. But that doesn't mean there aren't more improvements yet to be had.

I prefer the Baratza Vario to the CMH. It is quieter, smaller, and neater. In terms of grind quality and impact in the cup, I would say they are quite comparable. There is a difference in flavor profile, much as one often reads that conicals are different than flat burr sets -- but that is a "difference," not a "better than/worse than" issue.

But I still really like my CMH -- it's a great grinder -- and I am not (seriously) contemplating the purchase of a second Baratza Vario to replace it.

Cheers,
Jason

as someone posted some time ago, a good strategy, perhaps the best, is to find the right grind and then vary the dose. i have found a 0.1 gram scale to be the single most useful tool i have. on my virtuoso '11' gives me consistently good results so come espresso time, that's where i go. the fine tuning comes in the dosing and since a bean weights about 0.1 gram, i can fiddle with the dosing down to the bean, and that is how i dial in new roasts, different coffees, etc.
if what we want is fine tuning and consistent results then in my opinion this is far more cost effective and probably as productive as spending beau coup bucks on an expensive grinder.

steve

tekomino wrote:So do you really taste difference between Baratza Vario and K30 in cup?

Not what you asked, but I was surprised at how much difference in the cup there was when I went from Super Jolly to Major.

differences are likely to be noticeable in the cup.

sbien wrote:as someone posted some time ago, a good strategy, perhaps the best, is to find the right grind and then vary the dose. i have found a 0.1 gram scale to be the single most useful tool i have.

I weigh each dose. If you are consistent on your dosing, other changes will stand out quite noticeably.

One of the things I'd like to reiterate is how good a grinder the Vario is. You can do better, but not much better. In my opinion, to even perceive a difference, you will need to have rock solid technique, a good machine, and a great coffee.

Jim, I wholeheartedly agree with your comment.

As you can see by the photo I've got a Vario and a Compak K10 WBC. I purchased the Vario first and like you questioned that if I "stepped-up" would I be able to get better results.

After endless rounds of dd I finally decided to purchase a WBC from CC; figuring that if it wasn't better than my Vario I'd simply return it. I know, my bad, but I'd be lying if I didn't mention that that thought crossed my mind and used it as a justification to purchase the WBC.

I've been running these grinders for ~ 3 weeks now and sometimes I have a hard time distinguishing which one produces the better cup. However, when I get everything right, or darn near right, the WBC produces a cup that puts a huge grin on my face and reaffirms that I made a simply brilliant purchase.

Was the WBC worth the $800+ premium over the Vario, probably not, but I've found that if you judge everything by price alone; you're bound to live a very boring life.