Sherman wrote:HX requires substantial cooling flushes (6 oz. start, 2-3 oz. in between)-s.

Yup. I'd put this at the top of my list using my Expobar. I had three people over for coffee the other day and went through two reservoirs of water. If I could be smart enough to catch the flushes I wouldn't feel so bad about using so much water. At least the drip tray water can be cooled and used to water the garden.

No complaints otherwise.

Drew,

I am not a seasoned HX pro, I've only had my Vetrano for about a month. I had been using PID'd Silvia for many years before, and I upgraded from Rocky to Macap M4 about 5 months ago. I have absolutely no regrets getting the Vetrano except as others have said, why didn't I do it sooner?

I wish I better understood the relationship between dose, grind, temperature before I started, but i didn't have much luck exploring these things with my old equipment. I am on a fairly steep learning curve now, but there are good threads here that help considerably. Each E61 machine, apparently has a personality, and you have to get a feel for that personality. Then, it becomes easier to make small shifts in your routine for a little hotter or cooler pull. I have been using Eric S's group head thermometer and recommend it highly.

Two things surprised me. First, that I was able to dial in and get a decent shot so quickly once the machine was plumbed in. Second, that I would have to completely redo my ritual wrt grind, dose, prepare, flush, etc. The second part has not yet settled down because I am still having too much fun trying different techniques just to see what the machine does and how that influences the taste of the espresso.

Enjoy.

Alan

Cannonfodder has to remember to dump the the drain bucket. This waste goes to water my house plants, saving me fillup time on my watering can.

Marvin

ailevin wrote:Drew,

I am not a seasoned HX pro, I've only had my Vetrano for about a month. I had been using PID'd Silvia for many years before, and I upgraded from Rocky to Macap M4 about 5 months ago. I have absolutely no regrets getting the Vetrano except as others have said, why didn't I do it sooner?

I wish I better understood the relationship between dose, grind, temperature before I started, but i didn't have much luck exploring these things with my old equipment. I am on a fairly steep learning curve now, but there are good threads here that help considerably. Each E61 machine, apparently has a personality, and you have to get a feel for that personality. Then, it becomes easier to make small shifts in your routine for a little hotter or cooler pull. I have been using Eric S's group head thermometer and recommend it highly.

Two things surprised me. First, that I was able to dial in and get a decent shot so quickly once the machine was plumbed in. Second, that I would have to completely redo my ritual wrt grind, dose, prepare, flush, etc. The second part has not yet settled down because I am still having too much fun trying different techniques just to see what the machine does and how that influences the taste of the espresso.

Enjoy.

Alan

I'm really hoping that with this new equipment, I'll be able to "get" that relationship. I think it is too hard on the La Pavoni. Its tendency to overheat after 2/3 shots made it pretty hard to experiment and learn.

I plan on getting it plumbed in. I think some days I'm gonna be so wired from caffeine I won't get any sleep.

iginfect wrote:Cannonfodder has to remember to dump the the drain bucket. This waste goes to water my house plants, saving me fillup time on my watering can.

Marvin

I guess the Vetrano has a drain plug. Not sure why Andreja doesn't have one, but I should be able to drill a drain hole at some point, no? I have a wet bar with a drain right next to it, so this should be convenient.

One more thought on, "I wish I had known." Because I quickly was able to pull a decent shot with my regular blend, i got excited and decided to "explore" with different coffees right away. This was a mistake. I have returned to my original coffee because I know it well, and I have a better sense of how to explore dose, grind, temp with it and also how to evaluate different routines.

Re: plumbing in, I chose the Vetrano over the Andreja because I wanted to plumb in.

Re: drain, if you are next to a sink, consider just dumping the tray. That is what I do and it is easy. Doing the drain has a number of issues, including venting the drain, avoiding clogs from grounds, and most of all keeping the drawer clean. With the drain hose connected, it would seem difficult to remove the drawer for cleaning. Also, since the bottom is flat, it will not drain completely. I was going to install drain but after talking to a few folks, including my vendor, I decided against.

Alan

P.S. Vetrano and Andreja are pretty identical in terms of boiler, group, wands. Andreja has beautiful outer casing, Vetrano has rotary pump.