I would like to get a better grinder for espresso shots. My Vario has been used for espresso exclusively for the half of the 3 years I have owned it. I want to upgrade this to something that will allow me to experience better espresso shots. The Vario cannot find the sweet spot for a balanced shot.

That said, I am looking for recommendations. I do not want a manual grinder. I have a Lido, and I like it, but really need something more efficient.

I have been told elsewhere that an upgrade from the Vario gets into the $700-$1,000 range. Is that true? I would obviously like to spend as little as possible, but really just want to budget appropriately. I could stomach the previously mentioned range, but not more (now).

So, I have gotten recommendations of the Compak K3 and the Mazzer Mini E. Has anyone gone from a Vario to either of those? Was there a noticeable improvement to your shots?

What other electric grinders should be considered and why?

Thanks for the input!

Thanks! It sounds like you are a happy Vario owner. Any recommendation for an improvement from the Vario?

The Vario burrset and adjustment scheme are good enough for you to achieve a "balanced" shot. Your problem is either skills (let's assume it isn't) or there's something mechanical going on with your Vario (let's also assume your grinder needs more than a cleaning).

The Vario is huge bang for the buck when it comes to performance in the cup and user friendliness, but that comes at the price of build quality. Whether or not the problem can be repaired without too much trouble or expense -- e.g., replacing the burr carrier arms and/or shimming -- replacing a Vario with something better built is a legitimate upgrade.

pearlmikejam wrote:Any recommendation for an improvement from the Vario?

The "Super Jolly" class is better in the cup (judging by spectrum, separation, clarity, and mouthfeel) over the Vario, but not an in your face advance. The better grinders in the class allow for very precise adjustments, and their settings will hold longer as the coffee ages than they would in a Vario. These are medium duty commercial grinders, and their build quality is almost uniformly excellent.

If you want a palpable improvement in the cup, you need to move into the "big flat" class.

Before we get into specifics:

• Single dose or hopper feed?
• Mechanical doser or doserless on demand? And
• Budget?

Rich

boar_d_laze wrote:The Vario burrset and adjustment scheme are good enough for you to achieve a "balanced" shot. Your problem is either skills (let's assume it isn't) or there's something mechanical going on with your Vario (let's also assume your grinder needs more than a cleaning).

The Vario is huge bang for the buck when it comes to performance in the cup and user friendliness, but that comes at the price of build quality. Whether or not the problem can be repaired without too much trouble or expense -- e.g., replacing the burr carrier arms and/or shimming -- replacing a Vario with something better built is a legitimate upgrade.



Rich

Thanks for the reply Rich!

Just to give you some insight into my history (or defend my technique, ha ), I use Intelligentsia beans I can get locally that are recently roasted. I weigh each dose of beans and start with the roasters recommended parameters for dose, temperature and shot time. By balanced, I cannot get a shot that has both the bright and low notes. I either get a tobacco/ash tasting shots. Adjusting the PID to be cooler results in sour shots. I cannot reproduce the mellow shot with not much tobacco and just a hint of bright notes, like in the Intelly cafes.

I do have another thread going looking at tweaks or possibly fixes that may be needed for the Vario, but this has really been my experience with the Vario all along. It was an improvement from the Rocky, but not as much as I expected.

To answer your questions, I am really open at this point. I do not have time to pull many shots in a week (usually no more than 6). I would like to find time for more. As mentioned earlier, I weigh each dose of beans and just add that to the hopper currently. Since I make so few shots, a single dose grinder would make more sense. I have no preference between doser and doserless. As for budget, that is what I am partially trying to determine with this thread. I would love to spend $500, but I am sure that is not enough. $1,000 seems to be the number for the next step up, but I still cannot tell with some of the mixed feedback. I am trying to understand what that number should be so that I can properly budget and determine when I may upgrade.

To be clear, I realize I could spend $3,000 for a grinder and that should be an improvement. I am trying to understand what I should expect to spend for the next class of grinder above the Vario.

Thanks!

I have tried various Intelligentsia, Metro Redline, Counter Culture roasts and even some other local Chicago roasters I found at Whole Foods. All would go from sour to ash with one degree change to the PID, even while adjusting dose and grind. The biggest challenge was Redline.

I have contacted Baratrza. They sent me the standard calibration and cleaning literature. I have gone through that exercise. The latest message from them is that I need to send it to them to look at. I am not thrilled about having to spend over $100 to have them look at it, which is a quarter of the cost of the grinder, when it is less than 3 years old and lightly used. I am really struggling with that right now and have another thread looking for help on what I can look at to determine what may be wrong.

I was thinking a Forte may be the way to go, but I am not too happy with Baratza at the moment, and this would effectively be a lateral move. Plus, I do not really need something that can go from Espresso to FP. I really just need an espresso grinder.

Thanks for the insight, Chris!

I'm operating under the assumption that the machine you're using is the QM Alexia and that you are a capable and knowledgable HX operator. For that reason, I am going to assume temp is not the problem. Were you at one time able to consistently pull good shots with Black Cat or any other bean? Have you changed any other equipment since? Have you hanged any part of your routine since?

I've found that consistency is key. I'm using a non-PID Silvia right now, which mean I have no way of reading exact temps. But as long as I temp surf in the EXACT same way every time, I know that if there's a problem, temp probably isn't it. Are you tamping with the same pressure as before? Is it even? Have you tried WDT to even your grnd before tamping? Have you tried tightening or loosening your grind? A sour chot might need to be tightened up a bit and a burnt ashy shot may need to be loosened. All the while keeping temp exactly the same.

I have found that when I have a problem with my shots...99/100 times it's because of technique. Not an indictment on you, it's just that there are so many variables here that have not been discussed.

cmin wrote:I know you mentioned hand grinding not being in favor, but I used an HG-One and it's fast, if anything even faster then the Baratzas, and as far as taste in the cup its was a huge difference. Just something to consider, I know some owners of grinders like the Lido etc don't want to look again as their not that fast grinding and others like Harios are super slow, but the HG-One is fast and super easy. The one I used, just put the beans in, grind, put in basket and tamp and pull. No wdt no rdt like others, no other tricks, maybe our weather/humidity makes it easier down here?. The other larger grinders if your a single doser are going to take longer working around their quirks and doing mods for single dosing, or you can just purge beans before grinding for your shot (why I love the Baratzas b/c of the single dosing ease with almost no retention). But the taste in cup, unbelievably good

I have short cabinets and mainly single dose which is why I'm considering the HG-One next as any of the others even with a short hopper/mods won't fit as their massive grinders, stupid cabinets lol

Forte IMO is only good for those wanting a single all purpose grinder, to use just for espresso would be kinda useless for the price as it'll be same thing in the cup as a regular Vario as in that price range for espresso there are better in the cup grinders.

I cannot escape the HG One. I am really starting to lean towards that, probably the TiN burrs. I have a lot more reading to do.

Can anyone else speak to the HG One, specifically moving from a Vario?