Good day, LONG time lurker and finally a poster! I've read a trillion posts and hope I can be specific enough to have you help to guide efficiently. There's so many similar posts with newbies buying that its totally overwhelming but none exactly match up so here we go!

Have the Jura-Capresso E8 SuperAuto and am SOOO done with its lukewarm watery 'coffee' and it's constant electronic hiccups that we have to take out about a dozen Torx screws to fix! Albeit I have learned enough to use Jeff's Red Bird Espresso for a good long while. Now I've recently come into some extra funds and am ready to pull a trigger on a setup. Currently I have an old refurb Baratza Maestro Plus that honestly has been fair at grinding our weekend French Press. (any good at espresso?)

We drink mostly Americano's (long blacks) however if we ever go to a coffee house we usually always get a traditional cappuccino or macchiato, or a well done Americano with a LOT of room. At home we drink 2-4 Americano's each (wife would drink more milk based drinks but the Jura can't steam..period) morning and probably another 1-2 in the late afternoon. (I get up and immediately make a double americano to fill a travel mug and i'm out). We entertain from time to time and make capps and can't do macchiatos (no froth) or ristrettos (but would LOVE to!) Wifey is not liking all my talk about how temperamental espresso is..how a degree up or down or a mm up or down on an EXPENSIVE grinder ('we need ANOTHER grinder!?') makes a difference in taste and extraction...how people discard dose after dose to 'dial' in a shot...makes her NUTS! She's tired of hearing it so much that I almost just want her to use a Mr. Coffee and a can of Chock-full-O-Nutz! However; she LOVES her some tasty espresso....A LOT! Soooo she's fixated on the automatization of the new Breville Oracle and YES Blacksmith I know..it's an APPLIANCE! lol. It's steel coated plastic that works AWESOME and easy and it's all inclusive, grinder, mess free and even self steams!! BUT...I know in my heart in 4-6 years...i'll be reaching for the Torx driver and trying to fix something that wasn't ever made to be fixed?

Watched almost ALL Dan's Newbie vids and have come to this conclusion....I'm not trying to buy a prosumer machine that is a really fancy appliance...I want the furniture..the Ethan Allen chair you don't let the kids eat on or use as a toy, but you want to give it to them when they're wheeling you to the home! I want the Milan Chrome that you can bust open with a few screws and tinker with and fix when it breaks...etc etc..I want to LEARN to be a HOME-BARISTA!!

QM Vetrano 2B...love the looks, reliability, cost point, want to plumb in..don't have 20amp, but what I understand for a few drinks 15amps is FINE!? Love the lights/cooling vents and plumb-ability and especially LOVE that it's rotary, I get up at 0530..I do NOT want to wake three kids and a wife up with extra noise...which leads me to...

The MACAP M4 step less doserless (or maybe Dosered?) grinder. Good price point for me. Sadly CCS doesn't have in stock. Great initial reviews, sustainability and forgiveness built in? How noisy is this one? Still need to wake the house?

CCS vs Clive vs 1st line..all awesome and have spoke to some and nothing but courteous and wonderful. Is there a tip that I haven't read about.? I'd love to do the grinder/machine combo AND SOON!

One issue my wife points out is..."with all the nuances of pulling a really good shot..am I going to be able to?"..well I'm teaching myself so I can teach her. She loves that the Oracle is built with a timer..wake up and hit a button! Should I in fact (esp if I plumb in) leave the V2B on 24/7???! Seems like a TON of power all the time? How bout wear and tear? I absolutely do NOT have time in the am for a cold machine to warm? I've read so many threads that are so controversial regarding timers! I don't know about that one?

Whats your thoughts on the plan? SO important that it all fits under the cabinets, quiet and efficient would be great..how is the V2B? (not many extended vid reviews, except for the same Verona). Trying to make this a no brainer purchase for my wife...thinking Espro calibrated tamp so it's easier for her? Suggestions on stubborn spouses? How do I win her over? I'll be long at work when she's getting up for her double machiattos!

Sorry for the terribly long rant! I've been so waiting to have the funds and it's high time to actually take part in this awesome community!!! Look forward to the discussion!

Im surprised your didn't mention the Alex Duetto 3. That machine was just newly re-designed and has the performance to boot.

Also take a look at the Mazzer Mini line of grinders. I originally went Baratza and wound up quickly upgrading to a Mazzer Super Jolly and since the Mazzer Mini is a small SJ.... I have spoke to folks at CCS and they seem to agree the Mazzer stuff is better than the Macap line.

As for CCS vs Clive, etc... I purchased from Clive back when Chris still worked there. Chris was amazing spent a ton of time talking with me on my purchase and even did Skype video calls to help me learn. Although Chris is gone now, the others that work there are just as great. As for CCS I spoke to them too, I just didn't get the same warm fuzzy. Keep in mind that many of these units all from CCS since they are the direct importer.

As for a timer for your machine. I haven't don't it yet, but you need to be careful that the timer is rated for 15 amps... many are not. So I was considering this: http://www.amazon.com/GE-45605-Z-Wave-T ... 0013V1SRY/

You can turn it on and off and schedule it all from your phone.

I've totally considered the Duetto 3. It's a bit pricier, a ton heavier then the Vetrano 2B and low low group head clearance. The 2B has a cool factor I like as well. What's the thoughts on a Vetrano2B vs the Brewtus IV-R? Hundreds cheaper. As for the Mazzers, I'm not liking the really stiff adjustments in grind and seem to favor the MACAPs worm drive. Like the Compak grinder too. Need some advise about which DB PID rotary to choose. Too many different opinions regarding grinders and fanboy swaying.

I really like the staff at Chris' really awesome. Haven't spoken to anyone set Clive yet. But that Duetto is purrrty!

Here is the best/worst advice ever:

Buy Something.

Learn how to use it.

Enjoy.

You can thank me later.

Agreed.

If you want quiet grinding look into the Orphan Espresso Pharos and the HG-One grinder.

Don't know what your budget is...all I can offer is what I went through a year ago. I started with a Pasquini Livia 90 I purchased new in '98 or '99. I was able to sell it last year for almost what I originally paid for it...minus the near $500 repair bill it took a couple years ago.

I wanted simple. I wanted consistency. I wanted a machine with minimal electronic complexity and something I could work on when the time came.

There were several machines in the final selection. And although the machine I ended up choosing was outside of my original budget amount (funny how that goes...) I absolutely get joy every day I pull shots on my Londinium LI.

So...enjoy the process...consider carefully...and you'll be rewarded with something you'll love to use, own and get you to the promised land

Everyone has an opinion...you just got mine

BTW: Pharos hand grinder gets it done for me for all things espresso.

I'll totally look into the hand grinder. Have read plenty regarding them. Budget would be great to stay at or under $3200.

Your plan of the M4+Vetrano 2B sounds fine. Don't worry about the calibrated tamper -- you don't need that.

I'm going to pull the trigger for the V2B bit what's your thoughts on the MACAP M4 vs the Compak k3? Both will fit under cabinets both have flat burr. Both equally good quality? Should I really get conicals??

Can't seem to find anywhere that has the Pharo Hand grinder currently available for sale. What's is price? North of $800? I guess when looking for a quieter grinder that's about the only option.