Thx to education received here at HB I have narrowed down to two machines
Will appreciate feedback from your experiences, personal or from your likeminded espresso -philes
Vibiemme hx model with rotary pump,switchable
Versus
ECM Technika Profi lV

VB attracts me as so many comments on this and the other site have mentioned being impressed with this brand
VB touts the Restrictor valve as aiding brew head temp stability needing briefest of cooling flushes
Ease of opening the case if/when repairs needed
Motherboard located at distance from heating source touted as a durability feature

ECM Technika Profi lV also rotary pump, switchable
I am of direct German descent and respect German engineering
Stainless steel boiler and reportedly new versions of machine comes with insulated boiler so harshest retention as the VB with traditional copper boiler
Supposedly can preinfuse even if not plumbed

My question about the ECM:
I saw fleeting reference to its needing briefest of cooling flush. Not certain if it also has Restrictor valve.
Saw several year old review commenting on slow heat up time
Single solid steel frame: Will this make access difficult


Question re both machines:
How easy to adjust pressures if ever necessary. Some brands tout easily accessible screws somewhere on body of machine

Your thoughts very invited
What else should I be looking at.
Unfortunately it seems the machines are retailed by different sellers so can't ask seller for comparative info

Note: 1st Line Equipment (Jim) sells both ECM and VBM brands (and parts) -- so he should be able to compare/contrast both machines for you.

-- BR

Glad to learn this. 1st-Line seems to be a good company to use from what I have read online

Have you seen their demo video on the VBM super HX? Helped make my decision.

I found a poorly listed VBM super HX electronica on eBay. I had to work fast and do my research. Watched the video about 5 times. Read as much as I could. Good review on HB by Stefano. 1st-line rewrote a very detailed instruction manual on it. Read it thoroughly. I ended up scoring an almost new machine for under $1000

I'm still getting used to the steam wand. It's fast. I'm cheating and putting my pitcher in the freezer so I have more time

I havent had anything to compare to, since I upgrade from a breville Infuser. But I'm happy.

Barb, have you seen either in the flesh? I have no doubts that the Vibiemme is a good machine and is capable of making great espresso. After not using one, but just being able to touch and feel a floor model in person though, I would not put it on the same level of refinement and robustness as the Technika Profi. This is not a knock against the Vibiemme either, I think when nitpicking differences between switchable, rotary pump, E-61 hx's, it comes down to things like this.

Additionally, I don't recall if it was the Super or a different model, but I remember reading a few threads on here regarding rattling of the machine, and that either the panels or interior could have used some refinement to increase the fit and finish and reduce rattling. But, I think a few members here were able to remedy that pretty cheap/easily on their own.

Both machines are going to require similar heat up times, as it's not the boiler that needs a lot of time to get to temp, it's the E-61 group. I try and allow 45 minutes or more, if that's a concern, there are plenty of appliance timers that can be used.

The screw to adjust the Technika's brew pressure is not the most convenient to access in the world as it's on the underside of the machine and requires lifting it slightly to get to, but it's not terrible either, and once you get it set, it's out of sight. I wouldn't put too much value in this - after your first one or two sessions you'll have it set and leave it.

Another machine to consider in this realm would be the Bezzera Mitica, also available at 1st line. Nearly identical to the Technika IV Profi, save for a few cosmetic differences, boiler material, and a few hundred dollars.

Yes, the Bezzera Mitica looks pretty good, and it's an E-61 group if one isn't quite sure about other models using Bezzera's proprietary group-head heating element.

Plus...Bezzeras have that cool snake logo on the front!

BTW, I'd have to call into question the "robustness" of a ECM machines, as they do not tolerate shipping as well as a definitely more "robust" VBM, (which even mounts its boiler better with "robustness" in mind). ECMs have "shipping caveats" one must observe. Robust? Hardly...

And although I've not seen an ECM to compare to VBM re: quality/fit & finish, I think it safe to say that VBM doesn't take a back seat to any of them in that department. Rather, it sits at the front of the bus.

I do agree, however, that VBM (at least MY example) is a bit noisy, so yes, there is some "rattling" -- mainly the cup-tray, secondly the drip-tray. And yes, I think VBM should look into that more carefully in the future, to identify "rattle-points" and fix them, especially the rotary pump as I'm not sure it's mounted the best way to reduce vibration.

But you know, every machine is a trade-off in some fashion...I'm fine with mine.

-- BR

gophish wrote:Barb, have you seen either in the flesh? I have no doubts that the Vibiemme is a good machine and is capable of making great espresso. After not using one, but just being able to touch and feel a floor model in person though, I would not put it on the same level of refinement and robustness as the Technika Profi. This is not a knock against the Vibiemme either, I think when nitpicking differences between switchable, rotary pump, E-61 hx's, it comes down to things like this.

Additionally, I don't recall if it was the Super or a different model, but I remember reading a few threads on here regarding rattling of the machine, and that either the panels or interior could have used some refinement to increase the fit and finish and reduce rattling. But, I think a few members here were able to remedy that pretty cheap/easily on their own.

Both machines are going to require similar heat up times, as it's not the boiler that needs a lot of time to get to temp, it's the E-61 group. I try and allow 45 minutes or more, if that's a concern, there are plenty of appliance timers that can be used.

The screw to adjust the Technika's brew pressure is not the most convenient to access in the world as it's on the underside of the machine and requires lifting it slightly to get to, but it's not terrible either, and once you get it set, it's out of sight. I wouldn't put too much value in this - after your first one or two sessions you'll have it set and leave it.

Another machine to consider in this realm would be the Bezzera Mitica, also available at 1st line. Nearly identical to the Technika IV Profi, save for a few cosmetic differences, boiler material, and a few hundred dollars.

Yes the Bezzera Mitica is an excellant machine, very similar to the Technika IV profi, from my understanding is/was built in the bezzera factory and a bit cheaper priced than the ECM.

I was hoping to avoid my post turning into this, I will reiterate that it was and is not an attack on the Vibiemme machines, they are great, well-made machines.

Simply, that in my experience handling both, the ECM feels much more stable, stout, or robust. Less flex at the group when locking the PF in, side panels felt more substantial, drip tray assembly feels more solid and secure, rolled edges and corners felt more refined and finished, etc. These are all items that will not effect the results in the cup, but simply my observations in the difference between two very similar machines. I'm sure the OP will be satisfied with either.

I personally didn't have any issues with the shipping of the machine, and am not aware of any in recent history unless you are referring to the potential of the boiler shifting, which they work to prevent with zip ties. Yes, I agree that it should have been better designed as to not need that, but I don't plan on shipping it anytime soon, and it arrived to be well packaged and unscathed.

BillRedding wrote:Note: 1st Line Equipment (Jim) sells both ECM and VBM brands (and parts) -- so he should be able to compare/contrast both machines for you.

You might ask him to discuss price and availability of parts. I'm guessing Vibiemme would have an advantage because parts are available from lots of different vendors. The ECM Germany parts listed at 1st line have some outrageous list prices - $796 for a controller, $240 for what looks like a standard Mater XP110 pstat. (The latter should sell for less than $50.) But they suggest you call for reduced pricing on those parts if you bought your machine from them. Perhaps they're trying to limit sales of what ECM parts they have to support machines they have sold.

You guys are going to laugh at me. I started looking at the Bezzera line and I think I am smitten by the Strega. From what I have read and watched Jim Schulman's videos it seems to have a rep for making really good coffee. Basic use not hard to learn with option of tinkering down the line (timing of releasing the piston, re cocking the lever).

Crazy. Bucking the trend?