Hi All, in your opinion, which other model or make on the market now that is comparable to the above mentioned in terms of price, performance, etc? I was put to this question when my good buddy was paying me a visit over the weekends but sadly, I wasn't able to answer

I haven't tried the VBM personally, so I can't say with certainty that they're comparable, but the Izzo Alex Duetto II appears to be very similar in terms of price and capabilities. I've had one for almost 18 months now and I've been very satisfied with the performance. If you're not interested in the ability to switch between tank and plumbed, there are a few other options in the general price range according to their spec sheets and reputations, but the Duetto is the only one in this class that I've personally used. FWIW, I'd buy it again.

And I am the opposite of geoffbeier.. I have the DD v3 but never used the Izzo. Someone else was trying to decide between these two HERE and it just hit 6 pages! As I said there, I am glad I did not have to make that choice as it was made for me. But the DD is highly capable and provides exemplary performance particularly in terms of temperature control. It also features the (IMO) best E-61 group in the business.

For those who care about such things, Vibiemme rose from the ashes of the 70's Faema breakup, so there's direct link to the inventor of the e61. Not so for other 'parts bin e61 boxes'

How does it compare to the Expobar Brewtus IV-R? The addition of the pre-infusion chamber on this latest version of the Brewtus is an interesting feature. OTOH the VBM design has the brew water's feed line passing through the steam boiler to preheat the water. Does this really result in better temp stability? Moreover the VBM has a very small boiler. Doesn't that contribute to wider intra-shot temperature swings?

Have a look at the feature comparison I made a few months ago (the DD didn't exist at that time but you should still get something out of it): Reservoir & plumbable, automatic (volumetric), DB?

Thanks Louis. Good thread. Still happy with your choice?

innermusic wrote: Moreover the VBM has a very small boiler. Doesn't that contribute to wider intra-shot temperature swings?

The size of the boiler in a dual boiler setup is irrelevant. What matters is how well the engineers designed the entire system and matched the boiler to how the machine operates (PID programming, heating element wattage, etc.). Why keep a quart of water at the correct temperature when you can do the job with a pint? I think the test data from the V3 VBM DD speaks for itself.

innermusic wrote:Thanks Louis. Good thread. Still happy with your choice?

Perfectly. Having a 53mm group could seem revolutionary in a 58mm standardized world but this would be my only issue with the Vivaldi. The outdated LED control panel crossed with button combinations mnemonic tricks should be addressed by La Spaziale, but with the quick reference card hung inside a cabinet door, every setting is easily configured (temp, volumetric dosing, pre-infusion, group temperature offset, etc.).

The main serious issue discussed on s1cafe.com forums seems to be pump leakage, which as nothing to do with the Vivaldi itself, as the motor and pump used by La Spaziale are the same found in other brands.

When I made my comparison, the Vibiemme DD wasn't out yet. I see it as a good challenger to the Vivaldi, if you don't mind having a semi-auto instead of a full-auto. Maybe Vibiemme will eventually offer a full-auto version...

I do use volumetric dosing almost every morning for cappuccinos, once the grind/dose is correctly set for one particular coffee (requiring only a slight adjustment from day to day, as the coffee ages).

Quality control/fit on the Duetto seems to be a frequently discussed topic lately. This post from Oton (owner of both a Vivaldi and Duetto) on S1Cafe.com forums speaks for itself: http://s1cafe.com/viewtopic.php?p=19228#p19228. This adds to the design issues I identified in my (way too) long DB feature comparison: rotary pump on top of motor (and pumps do tend to leak over time), PID in what seem to be the hottest part of the machine (almost on top of the steam boiler), SSRs using the stainless steel front panel as a heatsink (close to the hot E61 mass and stainless also being a poor heat conductor).

If someone doesn't mind the lack of full stainless panels and the 53mm group, I can't see why the Vivaldi would not make their shortlist, or even finish on top of their list.