Hi guys,

I have been researching for over a month on my next Espresso machine purchase and started out with a budget of $1,500 which put me in the nice HX territory, but recently received a reward at work which netted me a $1,000 bonus putting me in the $2,500 range so I've moved on to double boilers as well. It seems many of the machines in this price category are very similar in features so I am having a hard time deciding. So far the major contenders are the Duetto II, Vilvaldi II, and the DD.

After looking at the machines in this range, I have narrowed it down to what I think would be an excellent choice for my first double-boiler machine. I am looking at the new Vibiemme Double Domobar with built-in PID to use for primarily milk-based drinks but wanted some feedback on what others thought.

I do have experience in the Espresso world but not with a high-end machine and used most machines in the $1,000 under category. I am looking for something I can buy once and will last me a good 5-10 years without any major headaches. I will probably use it once or twice a day max unless I have family over for the holidays as my wife does not drink coffee (I know, I know..)

Thanks in advance for any help.

The VBM DD is a great choice for any price range. It should last you a very long time, especially only using it twice a day. It is a well built quality machine. Does your budget include a grinder as well? It is hard to make good espresso with a cheap grinder. I didn't see any grinder listed in your profile, which is why I'm asking.

Hi Aaron,

Grinder budget is separate from the Espresso machine budget. I found a used Mazzer Super Jolly that I am hoping to pickup if the gentleman responds to my inquiry. If not, grinder budget will be around $800 and I have my eyes set on the Macap MXK.

My chronological espresso history:
- 6½ years with Silvia and Rocky
- 4 years with VBM DS (HX) and Kony
- About two months with VBM DD and Kony
The DS was a noticeable jump up from the Silvia, and while difficult to quantify, the DD was another upwards movement from the DS. Improved consistency in the espresso as well as the ability to crank up the steaming power without affecting the brew temperature. They could do more to isolate the body parts to cut down on vibration noise (easy enough for the end user to do), but the group is (IMO) the best E-61 in the industry and brew temperature control is exceptional.


..and the new owner's manual will be available soon..

Nice upgrade path, and I thought I had a problem with home theater stuff lol.

A gentleman selling a used La Cimbali Casa Jr replied back to me today and said it is still available so I am strongly leaning towards picking that up now. Any input on if this would be the better route to go over the V. DD?

A gentleman selling a used La Cimbali Casa Jr replied back to me today and said it is still available so I am strongly leaning towards picking that up now.

Difficult to compare a HX(?) machine to a dual boiler. I am prejudiced - Love the E-61 group due to its simplicity and ease of overhaul. And I prefer more mechanical and less electronic when I have a choice. I suppose that the price on the Cimbali would be a large factor in the decision. See this for more info on the LC.

Randy,

Can you confirm if the VDD can be used with a tank or if it has to be direct-plumbed only for this model? I can't seem to find definitive info.

I'm not Randy, but the answer to your question is that you can either use the internal tank or plumb in the machine. See this part of Randy's blog:

http://www.frcndigital.com/coffee/vibiemmedd.html

The user can choose whether to use the reservoir or to plumb the machine directly to a water source. A lever-operated valve on the bottom of the machine allows easy switching from one water source to the other without opening the machine. This allows the reservoir to be used for easy descaling when necessary.

Just like Beezer and I said for me , it is easily switched from reservoir to plumb. If there is any way you can swing it, I highly recommend plumbing it. Even a large bottle with a flojet pump or equivalent would work. This option allows user manual preinfusion by lifting the brew lever part way and that is a function that is well worth the trouble of plumbing the thing. The current models are coming with the more-standard-ish female BSPT hose as well (was a male when I got mine).

If you're still thinking about the La Cimbali Casa, this may help update Dan's old review of the DT/1 (non Casa) on the Review page. It's not meant as a sales pitch or a direct comparison to the VBMDD. They're different in several ways and one will definitely be a better fit than the other.

The old DT/1 and the new DT/1 Casa are different machines. The old one does not have pre-infusion, the home-friendly steam tip, or the dual gauges. Most, if not all, of Dan's caveats in the HB review regarding the high level of barista skills needed to make the DT1 sing don't apply to the Casa.

Looking at the HB review's conclusions, I'd give the Casa an extra point for "Exceptional Espresso," and "Morning After," and half a point for "Cappuccino Lover's [sic]."

Yes, pre-infusion takes a huge onus off the barista when it comes to prepping the baskets. Now a good prep works great; and that's quite an improvement.

Don't overlook how much easier the new tip makes things for (controlled) steaming normal quantities of milk either. In addition, Chris ships the Casa with the boiler pressure set higher than Dan had his. I.e., 1.2 vs 0.9. Even with the new "residential" tip, the Casa steams faster set this way than the old DT/1 did with a swapped out tip and arm at the lower pressure setting.

To get the most out of the Casa you still have to learn how to use cooling flushes to get your desired temperature range (something I mostly do by ear). If you're not familiar with HXs it will take you a few weeks to a couple of months (at most) to develop very fine control; but if you're familiar with temp via flushing it won't take long at all. The previous DT/1 was as definite and unamibigous as other great HXs like the Elektra Sixties and Nuova Simonelli Aurelia and Apia. And the new DT/1 Casa is just as good.

Thank God it's plumbed in. With the boiler pressure up, the base temperature is high and you'll end up flushing a lot of water to get to proper brew temperatures. But so what? The water goes down the drain without any effort on your part, and it's still cheap. If you've only used an HX with a reservoir, plumbed-in is a new and wonderful experience.

My experience with DBPIDs is limited, but I find a good HX is actually quicker and more efficient for on-the-fly temp adjustments. At the risk of redundancy, the Casa is very good at this. Like most really good machines -- including the VBMDD -- the Casa is quite revealing. As a matter of daily use, I usually have grind and temp well dialed in for the second shot.

Overall, it's a very friendly and forgiving machine, as simple as anything I've ever used. I don't think you get much simpler operation from a PID controlled double boiler, and you're certainly not going to get anywhere near the build quality and reliability from a DBPID anywhere near the Casa's price. This is another area is where the Casa really stands out. I can't overstate how pleasant the La Cimbali is to the touch, how well made it is, and how good it looks under the hood.

If you want the reassurance of DBPIDs' digitally precise temps you can't find them in a Junior. If you want Rolls-Royce "like buttah" smoothness and hugely over-built engineering, you won't find them anywhere else. When I was buying, my final choice came down to an LM GS3 or an LC Casa. The Casa was the right one for me.

BDL