Hi everyone--this is my first post here, but I'm a long-time lurker, so I know this is place to ask for advice about how to spend money on espresso machines! After having read every review I could find as well as all the various posts on here about the Vibiemme machines, I'd pretty much decided to buy a Double Domobar (this is an upgrade from my Silvia, which I've had for about 8 years now). One of the deciding factors was the relatively small ($100) difference between the HX and DB version of the Domobar Super; otherwise the HX machine is very attractive in its own right. It turns out, however, that the DB is out of stock; a new model with various improvements is supposed to come in in November, but with a new price as well (how much more is unknown, as far as I can tell). So now I'm torn between waiting to see what the new model and pricing look like or falling back on the HX machine, with which I'm sure I'd be happy. My only real hesitation about the HX machine is the length and hassle of the cooling flush, how much time it takes and how much water it uses--I gather refilling the tank (from under a cabinet, which is where it would have to be) is a bit of a hassle; the question of temperature seems to be fixable by installing Eric's grouphead thermometer (though that in itself makes up the difference in price between the HX and the DB machine). So I wonder whether some of you VBM owners out there can give me some advice based on your own experience with the machine. Thanks!

I don't have any experience with either machine, but from a purely economic point of view if the decision is between buying an HX now, or waiting till November and then buying the same machine or a new DB I'd definitely say to wait. The only thing you lose out on by waiting is a month with the new machine (and after 8 years, what's one more month), but by waiting you gain the option of buying the new machine, while still having the option of buying the HX if the new machine doesn't seem to be worth the new price.

And for all we know it could be powered by unicorn tears and have steam, hot water and rainbow wands! at least wait and see what it looks like so you can make an informed decision instead of just buying what's in stock (although I'm sure I've done that plenty of times before when I had some money burning a hole in my pocket).

I wish I had experience with the DB machine to share and to compare with the HX. I can comment on the HX model. The flush is not a big deal IF you install Eric's thermometer. The HX system will overheat when idling, but flushing to a given temperature on the thermometer is a precise way to get consistent results from this machine. The amount of time (or volume of water is you wish to measure that way) to flush before use will vary depending on ambient room temp, length of idle time, and temperature (pressure) setting of the boiler's pressurestat.


Waiting might be a good idea. This will be a long-term investment, and so it is one that you will want to be happy with. You might give Jim a call to find out what the differences will be... Whether he will share with you is another story. You might get enough info to decide and get "on the list."

My specific advice - whatever model you choose, get the stainless version.

You had mentioned you had read every review, but did not say anything about the detailed Buyer's Guide available on H-B. If you haven't seen it, it's definitely a worthwhile read:

http://www.home-barista.com/vibiemme-do...eview.html

Thanks Randy and Tristan; of course you're right that I might as well wait a few more weeks to see what the deal is and then decide. Reality checks are useful from time to time!

Randy, I know the flush depends on all kinds of circumstances so I guess it's impossible to generalize. But I think I read some reader reports on here mentioning 18 second cooling flushes on the HX machine, which just seems incredibly long . . . . or is it not really that long? I dread the idea of flushing out half the tank every day and needing to constantly wrestle the machine around to refill it. I'm probably worrying over nothing though.

Joshua, thanks--I did read the Buyer's Guide, which is great; that (and Randy's blog) is what got me interested in the machine in the first place.

Some details on the changes and improvements will be given soon
one of the reason why is not "officially " shared yet is an innovation and VBM is checking into patenting it
before making it public.
more to come

Randy G. wrote:I wish I had experience with the DB machine to share and to compare with the HX. I can comment on the HX model. The flush is not a big deal IF you install Eric's thermometer. The HX system will overheat when idling, but flushing to a given temperature on the thermometer is a precise way to get consistent results from this machine. The amount of time (or volume of water is you wish to measure that way) to flush before use will vary depending on ambient room temp, length of idle time, and temperature (pressure) setting of the boiler's pressurestat.


Waiting might be a good idea. This will be a long-term investment, and so it is one that you will want to be happy with. You might give Jim a call to find out what the differences will be... Whether he will share with you is another story. You might get enough info to decide and get "on the list."

My specific advice - whatever model you choose, get the stainless version.

I am very sorry, but my lips are sealed. Not even my office staff knows the improvements we are expecting on the next batch.

I have both a Vibiemme Domobar Super HX w PID and DB. Water usage is almost identical.
Both need a cleaning flush, a lot of water is 'wasted' by the e61 and the DD needs a 5s warming flush afer idle.

I run the HX @ ~0.9bar in HX mode and flush is nowhere near 18s.

Wait for the new DD

1st-line wrote:I am very sorry, but my lips are sealed. Not even my office staff knows the improvements we are expecting on the next batch.

You know me, Jim... Had to ask..

prof wrote:.... Randy, I know the flush depends on all kinds of circumstances so I guess it's impossible to generalize. But I think I read some reader reports on here mentioning 18 second cooling flushes on the HX machine, which just seems incredibly long . . . . or is it not really that long? I dread the idea of flushing out half the tank every day....

I have never timed my flush, but even with the cooling flush and a cleaning flush and backflush after every morning session, I only fill the tank about (an estimated) once a week or so.

ADDENDUM: I got some numbers for you:

Boiler Pressure: element off at 1.025 - Needle jumps to 1.05 at that time.
Idle Time for this "test": 1 Hour 45 minutes from time on to data acquisition
(all temperatures taken from Eric's group thermometer)
Temperature at idle: 205.5 F
Begin flush: Temp peaks at 209.5 F
Stop Flush at: 206.5 F
Time for flush: 21 seconds
Volume of water flushed: 6 ounces.

Another consideration... You are already at the pointy end of the stick... think about plumbing in the machine's supply as well as the drain...