Hello people,

I've been out of the espresso loop for about 10 years, happily making espresso with my Reneka Techno (dual boiler PID). Of late the repair frequency has been going up and my wife is tired of seeing me take the Techno offline, put it on the workbench and make some repair.

She's given me the green light to buy a new machine and did not bat an eye when I mentioned a need for up to 3,500 € (which is approximately the price of a Vesuvius if I get it delivered to me here in Switzerland from Bella Barista).

So basically I can spend a pretty good sum on a new machine (which is very nice as my HG One grinder should be arriving tomorrow).

I'd be very curious for views here on which machine people would recommend. My only location for the machine is on a counter 60 cm deep with 46 cm vertical clearance to the bottom surface of our cupboards which project 36 cm from the back wall.

I have loved the fact the Techno was plumbed in both for water and for drainage and would want the same in a new machine. Other than that I am quite open....the Vesuvius looks impressive but I worry about being on the bleeding edge. I don't like the fact the Profitec is not plumbed in for drainage although I suppose one could plumb it in with some effort. I've heard alot of people talking about the Londinium and other levers but to be honest I know very little about lever machines.

Thanks for some guidance people,

Dave M

Hi,
Happy L1 owner here.
If you happen to visit zurich anytime, drop me a PM, bring a bag of your favorite beans, and try it out.

I've had many machines and grinders. Always need something more. Now i think i'm settled for good.

Cheers

Happy Vesuvius owner here....I'm in the UK.

The Vesuvius is on the leading edge/bleeding edge. However it uses tried and tested components, super high quality internals and customised firmware on a well respected commercial main board that has been in service for a long time with no major hardware issues.

It's also one of the easier (possibly even the easiest) machines to work on and maintain.

joanes wrote:Hi,
Happy L1 owner here.
If you happen to visit zurich anytime, drop me a PM, bring a bag of your favorite beans, and try it out.

I've had many machines and grinders. Always need something more. Now i think i'm settled for good.

Cheers

Thanks Joanes, very kind offer. Can you expand a bit more on why it is you like the L1 so much? The Vesuvius seems to offer the ability to apply different pressures to 7 stages of an extraction and do so repeatedly. As I mentioned in my first post I am not really up to speed on the big attraction or selling points of the entire lever genre, although I suspect it must have something to do with operator control over extraction pressure.

Thanks for a little more detail on what makes the L1 so special for you --- I have certainly read and heard good things about it.

Dave

DaveC wrote:Happy Vesuvius owner here....I'm in the UK.

The Vesuvius is on the leading edge/bleeding edge. However it uses tried and tested components, super high quality internals and customised firmware on a well respected commercial main board that has been in service for a long time with no major hardware issues.

It's also one of the easier (possibly even the easiest) machines to work on and maintain.

Thanks Dave - I've read the entire Vesuvius forum postings and I am very seriously tempted on the Vesuvius.

Good to know that the internals are all time tested.

More reading to do for me at the moment.

Dave M

Hi Dave,

So beforehand I had a La Spaziale mini. A nice DB machine. I had it with custom wood pannels, and LED lights. A real beauty. Also, super easy to use, press one button for a single espresso, another for a double. Always. Volumetric dosing.
A great machine. Nice community dedicated to it. Well respected machine on many forums.

Yet, after 3 years with it, I was not fully happy. I had nice espresso with it, but never 'the espresso'.

About a year ago, I was sitting in the swiss barracks for the 21 annual compulsory days. The L1 delivery was supposed to be 21 days. I decided to bite the bullet and change machines.
It turns out the L1 took a bit more than the 21 days to arrive, a problem now solved.

I never looked back. I had a couple issues getting used to it in the beginning, especially with temperature. I chatted with Reiss, the man behind the L1, and solved all issues I had.

I've progressed more over the past year into coffee making than I did since I started the hobby. I can taste my home roast (also a gene cafe) much better, and consequently improve the next roast much better. I've found that also roasting improved by a huge factor since the L1. I surprise myself to find some home roast that I prefer over the commercial roasted beans from Switzerland top Roasters (Kafischmitte, Stoll), given the same beans.
I also was surprised to find that I prefer the coffees from the L1 over the ones served in Zurich's top coffee place. They had a 3 group strada at the bear brothers and cow coffee place. I would get an espresso at their place, buy the same beans, then try it at home. From what I tasted, I would never exchange my L1 for a 3 group strada.
Also, I've had a few moments on the L1 when I make an espresso, taste it, and get so amazed that I need to sit down for 10 minutes. It is not always, but when it happens, it is an amazing experience, that I never experienced on the Spaziale, or at any great coffee places anywhere in the world.

So in summary, what I like about the L1:
- The taste. Impossible to describe, except as 'not a pump-driven shot'. But also very different from the smaller lever machines (e.g. la pavoni)
- The feeling of agency when I make a coffee. It is not 'just pressing a button' but a bit more, a real experience. I don't think I'll ever grow tired of it. It is also a great show to put in front of friends. And the machine looks superb in the living room.
- The level of control. I normally use the standard 6s preinfustion, but since recently started experiencing with longer preinfusion, with nice results. With the L1, one has control on a lot of parameters.
- the temperature stability. Took me a bit of time to figure out. It actually isnt hard. I never worry about it. Also it warms up super fast. I turn it on in the morning, take a shower. When I'm done, the machine is ready. When I bring friends over for a quick shot, the machine is ready in 12 minutes.
- The community. The L1 has its own forum. Great members in it. The man behind the L1, Reiss, is also super helpfully. It is actually really nice to get to talk to the man behind this great machine on a one-to-one basis. I get to understand his choices in design. I actually like his vision.
- The durability. I opened up the machine after a year of medium use. It was spotless. The machine is super easy to service, no electronics. I expect it to last for many decades.

LEt me know if you have specific concerns. Cheerio

JG

Hi I currently have an L1
I wil be taking hold of a vesuvius and for a short while have them next to each other ( before the l1 gets sold hopefully )
I'll see if I can stack em up for you , the l1 makes very good cosnsistnt espresso ( paired with the right grinder and fresh beans ) . It's going to be a very hard act to follow

Hi Dave-
I can give you my thoughts on my Profitec 700 with the caveat that this is my first machine and I am a newbie to making espresso in general:
Overall great fit and finish as others have noted.
Pretty easy to use thus far.
Heats up very fast- can be ready to pull a shot within 15 min; although cups won't be warmed up by then.
Steams very fast (too fast for me but that's due to my inexperience). Mine came with no burn wand and 4 hole tip.
Drip tray capacity is not as much as I would like (design is inefficient- some wasted space). Drain hose would be a good thing if it's not too difficult to place.
Countertop footprint: you would need every bit of 49.5 cm depth when you include power cord etc; height is 43.2 cm; given your dimensions, you are ok in this regard and would likely be able to place cups on top for warming.

Thus far after some initial learning curve with dialing in the grind on Ceado 92, I am already pulling shots that are better than what I have had at local cafés. Much progress to be made however- the journey starts
Hope this helps.

dave_in_gva wrote:I don't like the fact the Profitec is not plumbed in for drainage although I suppose one could plumb it in with some effort.

Dave, the latest shipments of the Profitec 700 now come with a plumbable driptray, and a drainage kit to suit.

I bought mine about a month ago, and it had the new driptray setup.

Mrboots2u wrote:Hi I currently have an L1
I wil be taking hold of a vesuvius and for a short while have them next to each other ( before the l1 gets sold hopefully )
I'll see if I can stack em up for you , the l1 makes very good cosnsistnt espresso ( paired with the right grinder and fresh beans ) . It's going to be a very hard act to follow

Martin, lucky you! I'd be very keen to hear how you get on with the Vesuvius and having the Vesuvius and L1 side by side - I think you'd be the first espresso afficionado on the planet to be able to make that comparison.

I believe Dan said at the end of his Vesuvius review here that he was going to do a head to head between Vesuvius and the Profitec. I think for me it comes down to those 3 machines (Vesuvius, L1 and Profitec).

One thing I wonder about with the L1 is if people ever place these underneath cupboards. I would have no choice but for me that is going to leave the lever up and blocking the cupboard which is overhead. How do people get around this, or does one actually have to find a non-cupboard area of counter to place the L1 and other levers? If that's the case I'm afraid any lever would be a non-starter for me.

Thanks everyone for your comments, hugely helpful,

Dave