By value added I mean along the line of the OE Pharos grinder (coming tomorrow), where by most accounts I've read it is considered to produce a quality grind way above it's price point.

Are there any comparable espresso machines out there, preferably new and for a newbie. I will be using it mostly for one or two espressos and cappuccinos at a time. I would also prefer to stay at a price point below $500.

I am currently considering the Gaggia Classic, anything else I should be looking at?

I bought the Capresso Ec Pro but just can't get a decent shot out of it after adjusting some variables, and now it squirts out around the portafilter. I need something simple to use that will give me a consistently good to better shot, and that will last.

I would think a used La Pavoni manual lever would do the job. Finding anything mechanized for 500.00 or less that will hang in there might be difficult and used would probably be the only viable option. then there is the hidden cost with any machine. Complete Pavoni overhaul less heating element is about 50.00 or less.

Just depends if you want push button ease or the manual lever learning curve.

Small levers are the clear winners in this category. I agree that if the operator is skilled enough, a pavoni can make shots that are truly exceptional, in nearly any style they prefer. A Caravel is much easier to learn to use, and also makes wonderful shots, though you lose some versatility and the ability to steam milk.

I agree with a used La Pavoni. I've even seen ones listed as used online that look like out of box new ones, sometimes missing a few parts. Learning it is much easier if you add a group thermometer. A current thread shows how to test a used one.

Inspecting a La Pavoni without Grounds

There are open kettle options, like the Caravel or La Peppina that don't steam milk. Caravel has terrific build quality.

Once you get into vintage machines you may never want a new one.

I would personally skip the Pavoni. While it's a great machine, I would never consider it anything close to a beginner machine.

A big +1 to the Caravel and La Peppina. They deserve your attention even if they can't steam milk. If you must have steamed milk, you can get a stovetop steamer, or other milk steaming machine. This really is the best overall value when you compare shot quality to price you pay. They are also pretty easy to pull a good shot, even if each shot is quite a bit different.

Just keep in mind that the downsides to these small levers are usually reduced shot size, and sometimes other small little things that come up. I think for the value they provide, the rest can be considered part of their charm.

If you really must have new, and below $500...the only thing I can think of is the Mypressi Twist. It makes a great shot, but is quite fiddly to get it working and everything in place, still for the price and what it can make, it's hard to beat (similar to Pharos). But...looking at their website makes me think something isn't going that well. Everything is out of stock, and their blog hasn't been updated in a while. You could try to give them a call and see what's up and when their next production line will be ready.

Overall, I'd go with the vintage lever.

EspressoForge wrote:I would personally skip the Pavoni. While it's a great machine, I would never consider it anything close to a beginner machine.

When I got my first La Pavoni Europiccola Millennium model, I was surprised at how easy it was to use compared to my Isomac Amica, an E61 single boiler dual use (SBDU) machine with a PID. I eventually learned to dial in the Amica. There are so many instructions now for learning to use a La Pavoni and getting it dialed in for repeatable temperature that I disagree. You've got to learn somewhere. If you're lucky a Millennium machine will be factory pre-set at about 0.9 to 1 bar for pressure, which will give you good temperature. Add a group thermometer for about $20 and read the threads on temperature control. Dial in your grinder to the La Pavoni as you would need to do with any espresso machine. Dose with a gram scale that measures to 0.1 gm. Since the Cremina operates similarly I've included a link to an informative temperature study.

A Lesson from Christopher Cara in Using a La Pavoni Home Lever Espresso Machine

Adding Thermometry to a La Pavoni Europiccola This gives you more fine-tuning than temperature strips.

Dalton's law (And problems from it) This tells you how to release pockets of air that register as pressure and may keep your machine from coming up to temperature.

Olympia Cremina Temperature Study, Part 1

La Pavoni Millennium Owners, Are Temperature Problems Solved?

My comments are based on my experience with a pre-millenium Pavoni. While I could get a good shot, usually as a 2nd shot, somewhat repeatable...I still don't see how it could be considered a beginner machine. Unless of course the beginner realizes that it's actually an advanced machine and is willing to dedicate themselves to it...but that's more of a personal choice.

Newbrew wrote:I need something simple to use that will give me a consistently good to better shot, and that will last.

My recommendation still would stand that the Pavoni wouldn't be right for him. But hey, if he reads more about it and loves the idea, maybe I'm wrong.

EspressoForge wrote:My comments are based on my experience with a pre-millenium Pavoni.

That is why you're disagreeing it can be a beginner machine. You make a good point. Pre-Millennium is harder than a Millennium machine. A first generation one isn't a beginner machine either because it doesn't have a pressurestat. A Millennium La Pavoni is the one I would choose for a beginner.

An open boiler machine may be simpler but if someone also wants to learn to steam I think a Millennium La Pavoni is a good choice.

The only reason a pre millennium Pavoni causes any grief is a lack of understanding of its limitations and how to work around them. This is a problem with the majority of machines, they all have limitations. This should actually not be an issue as there are several thousand words at least on here explaining in tedious detail how to work through them. In fact there is enough info to be overwhelming if not careful.

I know it's not at the same quality as some of the other recommendations, but if you just want a simple to use machine, you might find all you need with a new Breville Infuser. Yea, it's a Breville, but for ease of use and features, I'm not sure anything new under $700 is possible. No temp surfing with the PID control, a hot water spout, a decent but S-L-O-W steaming machine, auto steam purge (but still run some water through the head to cool it down), pretty neat package. Can be had for about $400 if you use one of those Bed Bath & Beyond 20% off certificates they give you for signing up on their mailing list (it won't work online but in-store, they'll give you the discount). I had a Gaggia New Baby (essentially the same machine as the Classic) for years and absolutely loved it....but if I had to start out again in that class (I wouldn't, I'd save for a Crossland CC1 at a minimum), I'd probably go with the Infuser.