Hi

First post here I've been a french press and aeropress user for quite long and have enjoyed many good beans this way. But now the itch for espresso-gear has surfaced...

I've been looking around for some secondhand equipment and have found a 1.5 year old silvia and rocky. Unfortunately, it's just old enough to be a pre-update silvia... I can get the set at about 55 % of the retail price, so my question is simply: In your opinion, does a 45 % price cut make up for 1.5 years of (supposedly not very extensive) use, the fact that it is the old model and the uncertainty of how the machine has been maintained?

I know this is very much up to personal preference so... Would you go for this?

Thanks!

What is your actual budget for machine and grinder?

EBH wrote:In your opinion, does a 45 % price cut make up for 1.5 years of (supposedly not very extensive) use... ?

For popular espresso machines/grinders with good longevity, that's fair. The second owner really makes out in such cases. Unless the dollar suddenly gains strength, you can expect to sell in 2 years for what you paid today.

Denmark is an EU country, as is Italy, so pricing should be immune to USD fluctuations.

Is the 55% of the manufacturer's list price or a discounted price?
http://www.espressocoffeeshop.com/store..._S_RD.html

The Rocky could soon be in need of a burr replacement depending on prior usage.

Seriously have to question the advisability of purchasing a such difficult to use combo.
A bit of searching may yield a more capable grinder and a more user friendly machine.

I chose to put the price relative to retail, because prices here are somewhat higher than in the US. E.g. a Silvia is the equivalent of roughly $750 here, depending on where you get it.. So the (slightly discounted) retail price of the set (rocky+silvia) is $1130 and I can get a secondhand set for about $600...

My budget... It's hard to say.. I can go up in price, but need a good reason to do so. I just want a machine which I can grow with and which can deliver good results for at least 2 or 3 years..

cafeIKE, which combos are you thinking of? The Silvia has been described to me as a good beginners machine, but if your description is true then it might not be what I'm looking for.. Is it the grinder or the silvia that makes this set hard to use? I could go for another grinder and get a secondhand silvia if it helps..

To give you a bit more info.. I expect to be brewing two or three doubles a day. I'm not sure how I'll favor clean shots vs. milk drinks, but I know my girlfriend will prefer milk drinks, but then again I will be the main user... I like the idea of being the second owner and losing a lot over a couple of years, but the secondhand market is limited here, the silvia is definitely the traded of decent machines...

EBH wrote:The Silvia has been described to me as a good beginners machine...

Well, it's true that beginners frequently buy it. For more background and owner experience stories, peruse some of the threads under Rancilio Silvia and Rocky in this forum's FAQs and Favorites.

HB wrote:Well, it's true that beginners frequently buy it. For more background and owner experience stories, peruse some of the threads under Rancilio Silvia and Rocky in this forum's FAQs and Favorites.

Thanks, I had a good read and I have to say that it leaves me a bit worried about the set.. It seems that all that is left in the pros section is its good resale value

cafeIKE wrote:Seriously have to question the advisability of purchasing a such difficult to use combo.
A bit of searching may yield a more capable grinder and a more user friendly machine.

Could you give an example of such a set? I have looked at Isomac Zaffiro, which seems like a good step up. However, it is ridiculously expensive here, close to $1450!! I know my comments on budget were a bit vague, but that is definitely too much.. As mentioned, the secondhand market is limited here, have anyone bought secondhand on ebay?

I scale the importance of the 4Ms thus

coffee 53%
grinder 27%
machine 13%
you 7%

All the machine does is push hot water through properly ground coffee.

The Rocky is not a suitable espresso grinder because it is not stepless, the burrset is smallish and it retains a fair amount of coffee. Manufacturing tolerances leave something to be desired and some Rocky's are incapable of grinding for espresso. A used Macap MC4 or MC5, Mazzer Mini, Super Jolly or similar stepless is a better investment. A grinder with the Trespade burrset like the Lux, Ascaso I-2, etc is also suitable. The new Baratza Preciso looks like it might be a winner. Buy a grinder that you can use for 5, 10, 15 years rather than 2 and your frustration level will diminish commensurately.

A Single Boiler Dual Use [hot water and steam from 1 boiler] machine is a PITA to make even one milk drink. Impossible for two in any reasonable amount of time as there is a long interval for the cycle from brew to steam and back. A used HX or DB or one of the low end Expobar or Bezzera machines would be more appropriate. If low cost is a must, a used Gaggia can be had for half the cost of a Silvia. Remember, the grinder is second only to the coffee.

You've found the fount of espresso knowledge here at H-B, so please use it. Since it appears you have no urgent immediate need, read up on equipment for the next several months. Put 50 or 100 euro per month into an account until cash = desire. In the long run, you'll be much happier than struggling with marginal equipment.

Less haste, more speed.

Besides, Silvia and Rocky are about as butt ugly a couple as you could meet

Thanks Ike - Quality advice! I'll start by reading up on grinders while keeping an eye on the local secondhand market.. I'll try to get a really good grinder if one shows up (secondhand), does it make sense to pair this with a gaggia classic, if nothing else shows up?

Your percentages leave me in good mood as there is quite a selection of microroasters and very serious cafe's in town so getting quality beans shouldn't be a problem...

One common error about local roasters is mistaking fresh for quality espresso coffee.
Unless the shop can pull you a shot from their coffee that knox your sox off, PASS.