Hello all,
I am new to this site. I am trying to make a decision on home espresso equipment. I have about a $500 budget. I am convinced to push most of that to the grinder. I had been considering a combo from wholelattelove that would include the Rocky and the Gaggia Pure. The Pure has the same brew group as the classic, has a ss boiler, and does not have a 3-way valve. However, I have been looking at several used Gaggia Baby's that are from the mid 90's. Would I be better suited to get one of those with a used super jolly or rocky? I am also looking at a Gaggia Coffee that is not plastic and black with the standard Gaggia three-button cluster on the front.

Thank you for the help.

Hi. Welcome here!

You're right to spend your extra dollars on a better grinder, rather than on a better machine. Here in Canada, the price difference between a Rocky and a Baratza Vario is pretty negligible, but it's a far better grinder. I'd strongly urge you to consider the Vario. You'll likely never need to upgrade from a Vario, but most Rocky users upgrade after a few years. "A poor man buys once.", I always say.

It really comes down to price and whether or not you're comfortable buying used. All of the Gaggia machines are on the same level. There's very little difference between models, except that some have programmable dosing or a metal shell as opposed to plastic. You can't really go wrong here. The 3-way is mostly a convenience thing, and won't affect your results in the cup. Like I said it just depends on whether or not you're confident buying used.

Cheers!

Thank you for the reply. I will check into the Vario. What are the biggest differences between the Rocky and Vario? With regards to the Gaggia's, my thought was the same, that the 3-way valve was mainly a convenience. However, I figured if I got an older Gaggia, that perhaps an adjustable OPV could be installed that would help me with a consistent pressure throughout the shot. What do you think?

Thanks again.

There's lots to read on the Vario.
Basically:
- Low grind retention
- Digital timer
- Much smaller steps than Rocky = greater adjustability
- Suitable for a wide range of brewing methods
- Grind quality on par with some of the big Mazzers, i.e. Super Jolly.

As I understand, all of the Gaggias will offer consistent pressure. The benefit of an adjustable OPV is that you can adjust brew pressure. My machine does not have adjustable brew pressure, so I'm stuck at 11 bars, which is higher than optimal. From what I've read, there are a lot more important factors than pressure when it comes to brewing good shots (Fresh-roasted coffee, grind, dose, technique, temperature.). Although adjusting your brew pressure is desirable, it's pretty far down the list in terms of importance. At least, that's my understanding. Other users may correct me on this.

Either way, the improvement in taste you would experience by choosing the Vario over the Rocky will be far greater than what you would experience by choosing an adjustable OPV over non-adjustable.

You're asking good questions, though. Keep on it.

Thanks again for the reply. This is very good, practical information. I will definitely consider moving to the Vario. I guess the reason I would consider the older Gaggia is the ability to modify with temperature control or adjustable OPV, etc. I have also been told by wholelattelove and aabree that if I master grind, dose, and tamp, I should be able to produce very good shots. I'm leaning toward the newer package with the Vario, but if I could get good older machine I would save some money. I'm just wondering if it would make sense to modify this older machine in the future, run it as is, or someday upgrade to a different machine instead of mods.

Thank you again for the help.

Gaggias will produce great espresso, if you use good beans, a good grinder, and good technique.

The biggest trouble with them is temperature control. This is mostly on account of the small boiler. You're taking 2 oz out of a 3 oz boiler, meaning the boiler will start cooling very quickly on account of the introduction of cold water from the reservoir. So, even if you did PID a Gaggia, you'd at best be able to regulate the temperature when you start brewing. It would do little to reduce the intrashot temperature drop.

I'm basing this all on what I've read online rather than from direct experience, so take it with a grain of salt. I feel safe in saying that the majority of users on this forum would upgrading your machine rather than trying to modify it.

There are some users who were planning on PID-ing their Gaggias, but I haven't checked in with them to see what their results were.

That is good info. That does make sense regarding the boiler size. I knew the Gaggia's had a smaller boiler, so heat up time should be quicker, but consecutive drinks could be slower. I guess I will just be careful about how many drinks I do consecutively.
Thanks again.

If I were going to buy a new gaggia today, I would probably go with one with a 3-way valve, having owned one without for a couple years I think the extra money would be worth it. It would just make the process of making a couple shots in the morning easier and cleaner.

As far as temp stability, I've been preheating the reservoir water. It's an easy way to get rid of the too-cold sour taste that showed up sometimes, but it does open up more variables and is one more thing to do/keep track of. Plus it may be wearing out the pump since it's not rated to pump hot water. It's certainly not necessary, actually, I think the stock machines are a great value and if you're going to spend anymore money on them, it might just be worthwhile to upgrade instead.

As long as you've got a good grinder, are consistent in your technique, and use good quality (and forgiving) beans you can get some very nice shots from either Gaggia. A bottomless portafilter is a nice aid to help with technique though.

Thanks for the information. What is a bottomless portafilter?

TrlstanC wrote:As far as temp stability, I've been preheating the reservoir water. It's an easy way to get rid of the too-cold sour taste that showed up sometimes, but it does open up more variables and is one more thing to do/keep track of. Plus it may be wearing out the pump since it's not rated to pump hot water. It's certainly not necessary, actually, I think the stock machines are a great value and if you're going to spend anymore money on them, it might just be worthwhile to upgrade instead.

Interesting idea to preheat the water, Tristan. I'd thought of that but haven't tried it. What's your method?

I agree with Tristan. The 3-way is nice if you have the money to spare, but if the choice comes down to either a better grinder, or a machine with a 3-way, go with the better grinder. I've owned two machines. One with a 3-way and one without. The 3-way is nice once you have one, but not $200 nicer. If you get a machine without the 3-way, just be sure to remove the PF slowly, so it doesn't explode everywhere (Like opening a pop bottle that's been shaken.). Not a big deal IMHO.

vettman wrote: I knew the Gaggia's had a smaller boiler, so heat up time should be quicker, but consecutive drinks could be slower.

Really? I think it would be faster. Smaller boiler = less water to heat= faster rebound. At the very least, I don't think it would be any slower.

When I make consecutive drinks, I usually use smaller cups and split the shot. Then I steam the milk and pour the drinks. After that, the boiler is more than hot enough to make the next pair of drinks.