In about six months I'd like to upgrade to a DB machine with a few extras. I'd like to have pre-infusion, great temperature stability, a PID, switchable from plumbed in to out, easy access to OPV adjustment, nice esthetics, and a sturdy well-constructed machine.

In order of importance: 1. Pulling great shots of espresso, 2. EASY microfoam (for dummies). I suck at microfoam.

So I'm thinking the new Version 3 Vibiemme DB, or a Vivaldi II. I've more or less discarded the Brewtus IV as a lower quality construction machine. The Vivaldi has a history - a positive history. The VBM is too new. Might be great, but too early for lots of experience-based feedback.

Any thoughts?

How do the owners of the VBM V.3 DB feel about their machine, now that they had it for awhile? If you could go back in time, would you buy it again? Issues? Problems? Remorse? Wish list for V.4?

Similar questions for the multitude of Vivaldi II owners. What would you look for on the next iteration - the Vivaldi III?

Is there another machine out there in this price range that I'm overlooking?

The Alex Duetto II meets all of your criteria. E-61, PID dual boilers, easily switched to plumbed in or tank fed, temp stable, etc. I just received my new Duetto the other day and am still getting used to it. See my short review/initial impression thread. In summary, it's a good machine, but with a few odd quirks.

Also, be aware that the Vivaldi cannot be switched from plumb in to tank or vice versa. There are two separate versions, one that is plumb in only with a rotary pump, and one that is tank fed only with a vibe pump. Also, Vivaldis don't have a true PID, though they have an electronic thermostat that works quite well. By all accounts, the Vivaldi is an excellent machine, but you do have to commit to one style or the other.

I haven't seen or used the VBM DD, but it sounds like a very nice machine too.

Really, I think any of these machines would do great. Which one you choose depends more on individual taste than any objective criteria.

I have been using my DD V3 for probably 6 months now and am very happy with it. Pulls great shots and is built like a tank. It would be nice to have a slightly redesigned drip tray cover so water doesnt rest at the back. Not really a big deal - it is easily wiped after the session. There are also some vibration noises in the panels but they are easily fixed with some silicone at the vibration points. I would certainly buy it again.

FWIW, it is not "too new" The basics of the machine have been around for a very long time. The pid is new and the boiler/steam boiler are new sizes and have a preheat pipe that runs through the steam boiler for temp stability. This being said it is certainly not a new player.

As far as microfoam.... just learn how to make it. Those machines have a lot of steam power and your microfoam may be worse initially. You are looking at dumping over $2k in a machine. Milk is $4 a gallon. Buy two gallons and steam away until you learn. Dump it down the drain, give it to a cat, whatever. When you are done you will never forget how to make microfoam.

Greetings! From all I read, both are great machines. I went the Vivaldi II route and have been very pleased with it. I was coming from an old but reliable Pasquini Livia 90. While I became pretty adept at temperature surfing, I really like the consistency of the DB approach. I will not go over the obvious differences, but here are a few that surprised me. Kudos for Chris Coffee to help me get up and running.
1. I can't imagine going back to tank pour unless I really had to. Plumbed in is just SO nice.
2. The integrated timer option on the Vivaldi is just great. I used to have an external timer on my Livia, but if I made a mistake and had the wrong switch clicked it could come on and empty the tank on the counter (OK, just once, but you do remember it). The Vivaldi timer is integrated into the electronics, so this cannot happen. I have it come on in the early AM and shut off at 10:00 AM. But to override all you need to do is push one of the buttons on the machine. So when I leave for work, I just push the on/off button--with the backup that if I forget it will shut of at 10:00 anyway.
3. Cleaning a DB is way nicer than cleaning my HE Livia. My guess is that since the group does not get so hot the residue is not being baked on. It takes a fraction of the time.
4. Automation: The livia automation is nice, especially if you have others in the house that like to make coffee. Again one nice feature is that it can be easily over ridden by just pushing the button. I have the 1 shot button dosed just for a back flush.
5. Height: Check your cabinet height before ordering anything! My old Livia was tiny in comparison. The Vivaldi is shorter than most of the home premium machines. (of course so is a Speedster)
6. Hot water: Nice, controllable hot-water dispenser in a great location.
Anyway, have fun. Deciding was tough for me.

I've had a mini Vivaldi for 4 years and am still very happy with it. I make about 3 double capps/day and refill the water container every 3-4 days. For me this is not a big deal. I didn't have an easy way to plumb it in. On the Vivaldi, the water tank slides out the front of the machine and is extremely easy to remove - so you don't have to move the machine, move cups off the top, etc. I've had zero problems until 3 days ago when the water tank fitting started dripping.

The machine steams incredibly well and it's very easy to clean the dispersion screens, which I do once a week. All the machines you mention are high quality (even the newer Expobars seem very nice) and it will probably come down to looks/size.

Realized I forget to address some of your questions. If I could changes things on the Mini, it would be to make the temp set slightly more sensitive, eg 1/2 degree centigrade or Fahrenheit. It currently can be set in Centigrade only which is fairly accurate, but less so than all the PID machines on the market now. I also wouldn't mind a redesign so I could use a standard timer instead of the $200 one from Spaziale. It's a pain to program, although admittedly I've only done it once or twice in 4 years.

Features I like include the automatic shot volumes so that I can steam and not pay attention to flipping a lever if I don't want to. I also like the fact that I could buy it from Chris' Coffee who have an excellent tech staff and customer service after the sale. I also happen to like the looks/plastic sides which are much easier to keep clean than my shiny Anita was.

In reality you would be happy with either machine. Most likely it would be more of a aesthetic decision. They are completely different looking machines and most people dislike the look of one of them.

Price wise, warranty wise and length of production wise you'd be better off with the Vivaldi, which imo are the major reasons that they sell like hot cakes. Having previously owned a Mini II for ~ 30 trouble free months, I can vouch for its reliability and resale value; all of which are important factors to consider.

Aesthetically I like the looks of the DD V3 but all that stainless steel requires constant work to keep it looking nice and shiny. The Vivaldi on the other hand requires very little work to keep it spotless but too each his own in that regard.

Steve,

You mention that you're going to upgrade in 6 months or so. Well, impatience is the enemy of satisfaction. You have time on your side ... time to explore ... time to dream .... and time to properly search for your next machine.

I'd recommend you take a serious look at home levers and/or single group commercial levers. They may appeal to you and they may not. But, open that door, look around and gauge your interest.

May the search bring you pleasure,

joat

I just picked up a used Mini V yesterday, and the fit and finish is spot on. It's also really quiet for a vibe machine (not a rattle to be heard), and steams like a beast. Couldn't be happier. If you're not hung up on true PID, it's a fantastic DB for money. Yes switchable plumbing would be great, but with the design of the front access water tank, I don't think they could swing it.