I was thinking of buying the Silvia but had read some posts saying it's a tad over-priced currently. This will be the first machine I buy and I will be using it to make straight espresso and milk-based drinks.

If I were to upgrade from the Silvia as some have suggested, what machines would you suggest looking at? Is the Vario grinder a good choice? I have read lots of information the last two weeks and am thankful for forums like this to learn from.

I guess my total budget would be $1,000 but I could go up to $1,400 if need be. Is there anything in that range people would recommend?

EDIT: I have been reading another forum before I discovered this one. After reading some threads here, I instantly recognize I have to step my budget up to $1,500 to get the Vario and a quality HX. I found the threads dealing with $1,500 budgets and found those to be immensely helpful. Now, I have to sell my wife on the new budget.

Thanks a lot!

Isn't buying, shopping, reading, and comparing a blast? It's exhilarating, to be honest. Once you've pulled the trigger, it's over (for a couple of years anyway), so enjoy the process. I certainly did. Like you, I also found my budget creeping upwards the more I read and studied. I started with $1,500 for an upgraded machine (from a Gaggia Twin), and after months and months of studying, I settled on the old style Quickmill Vetrano from Chris' Coffee (after also looking pretty hard at the Rockets). I talked to Scott at Chris Coffee a few times, and even received an invitation from Chris himself to call him directly one Sunday to get some of my newbie nervous buyer email questions answered. Those guys truly are a class act from start to finish. That was back in late January. A couple of weeks ago, I called in my order only to find out that the last old style Vetrano was sold about 24 hours previously. After some brief moments of disappointment (of my own making by the way), I saw my budget creep slowly up to the new Vetrano or the new Andreja Premium. Wow, I was approaching the $2k threshold pretty quick, but talking myself into it (you know how it goes, the talking ourselves into it part is not that difficult, it's the figuring out how we're going to explain this to the Chairman of the Board--"She Who Must Be Obeyed" that consumes all the thought and planning). But I was there. Then fate would have me learn of a buyer's remorse Alex Duetto II that was being returned. It was a no-brainer. Fate just put me in the right place at the right time. That baby is currently on a UPS truck somewhere west of Hodgkins Illinois heading toward Salem, Oregon at about 65 mph. Supposed to be here tomorrow. I can't wait!! So enjoy the process!! I'd highly recommend taking a serious look at all the machines sold by Chris Coffee Service. Not only are they as good and probably better than everything else out there, those guys are the best of the best of the best. I've still got my Rocky Doserless (that I love). I'll undoubtedly upgrade it eventually, but I know exactly what it will and won't do. I think the Barratza Vario (from all I've read) for about $100 more than the Rocky is probably a significant upgrade for a dedicated home espresso grinder (a lot of bang for the buck), but I'll let the more experienced baristas on this site chime in on that. But I know they'll echo my suggestion that instead of choosing a machine and grinder combo, go ahead and choose a vendor with whom you want to build a years' long relationship, and then choose the machine/grinder of your "current" dreams.

Thanks for the advice, Recontra. You make a lot of good points that I hadn't previously thought about.

First off, it is indeed fun to enter this world of espresso. I, like many, have always enjoyed it in cafes. But now that I am going to be able to make quality drinks at home, I feel this will be part of my life forever.

I am definitely enjoying the process. Even with all the information out there, it still takes a long time to read it and figure out the best choice for your situation. We're moving into a new home around December, so I have to wait until then to purchase the machines. Sadly, we lack a lot of counter space right now and literally cannot fit the grinder and actual espresso machine in our kitchen - so I am forced to enjoy the process. I want it now, now, now!

Chris' Coffee is definitely the site I was leaning towards buying with. The glowing reviews by multiple people on here make it an attractive option.

As a quick follow-up to my earlier post - my wife was very understanding of our need to move the budget up a little bit. I wrote her a well thought out email this morning (so as to avoid getting in an argument on the phone) detailing why we needed the increased funds. She totally got it. So right now, I am cleared for $1,500. By the time the autumn comes around, I think I will be trying to persuade her to go higher.

Thanks again - and best of luck with you and your new machines.

As someone who owns both, I would not consider the Vario an "upgrade" from the Rocky. It's a very fine grinder with some really nice features (timed grinding being #1) but it is in the same class as Rocky.

Let me suggest that you use your upgrade allowance entirely on a top-end grinder. Maybe leave $100 aside to PID Silvia (if you haven't already).

The only downside I see is that Silvia is not a good machine (no single boiler machines are) for making milk-based drinks because of the hassle of switching between brew/steam mode. An HX machine is much better for that but, on the other hand, you won't get the temperature stability out of an HX machine that you would get out of a PID Silvia.

I am not sure that I, or too many others here, would recommend Silvia over an HX. HX machines are stable and are better in almost ever fashion compared to a Silvia. A larger boiler, steam/brew simultaneously, consistency and the list goes on. The Vario or a used commercial grinder would be a good pick. That leaves you with about $1000 left for a machine. You have a few options at that price point and I am sure that the other similar threads that you have been reading have helpful suggestions. If you can afford an HX definitely go for it over a SBDU.

Aaron wrote:I am not sure that I, or too many others here, would recommend Silvia over an HX. HX machines are stable and are better in almost ever fashion compared to a Silvia. A larger boiler, steam/brew simultaneously, consistency and the list goes on.

Indeed, I agree for the reasons you cite and the reasons outlined in How to choose an espresso machine and grinder at the "right" price and discussed at length just recently for the n'th time in Rancilio Silvia: With or Without PID? Jim offered this helpful soundbite recommendation yesterday:

another_jim wrote:Bezzera BZ07 is an inexpensive small footprint HX which requires minimal cooling flushes, about 5 to 10 seconds; and make very good shots. The NS Oscar is another small HX machine, this one with a very understated plastic case. The stock basket is not very good, but the machine mated with better baskets pulls good shots.

It echos my recommendation from the aforementioned thread:

HB wrote:For just a little more, why not a Bezzera BZ02? Less aggravation, can brew/steam simultaneously, and you'll avoid upgraditus in less than a year.

Thank you everyone for your informative responses.

I had read the $1,500 Budget thread and after a little research, decided the BZ02 and BZ07 were the leaders in the club house (and they're within my budget, which is nice). I know I will always have the urge to consider the next best model until I buy something but that's a pricey game to play. I was even doing it with BZ07 because I noticed one model came with PID installed.

I know PIDs and their cost/benefit have been discussed ad nauseum - but if anyone has the BZ07 with or without the PID, I would love to hear the reasons why I should/shouldn't get it.

My apologies, I didn't realize that you didn't already own a Silvia/Rocky combo. I thought you did and were looking to upgrade to the next step up. Now I see that you're looking to upgrade from what was originally going to be a Silvia/Rocky combo.

In the latter case, I would say go with the Vario over Rocky and get a nice HX machine.

I think you can "jump in" to Espresso with either a Silvia/Rocky class setup or one small increment higher, like an HX/Vario. I don't believe in jumping from Silvia/Rocky to HX/Vario as it's not enough of an increment. If I already had a Silvia/Rocky class setup the next step would (and is) a double boiler PID machine and a $1500 grinder to go with.

nitpick wrote:I don't believe in jumping from Silvia/Rocky to HX/Vario as it's not enough of an increment. If I already had a Silvia/Rocky class setup the next step would (and is) a double boiler PID machine and a $1500 grinder to go with.

If you follow the discussions on the forum, my guess is that many would strongly disagree with this assertion. Both a BZ07 and a Vario would be a significant step up from the Silvia/Rocky combo.

hperry wrote:If you follow the discussions on the forum, my guess is that many would strongly disagree with this assertion. Both a BZ07 and a Vario would be a significant step up from the Silvia/Rocky combo.

I don't doubt that. But, as I've said, I currently own both a Vario and a Rocky and I use a Pasquini Livia frequently along with my Silvia and those have helped me form my opinions.