Hi,

I have a Rocket Giotto PP (3 years old). I love it, and use it every morning for me and my sig other. We both drink milk based beverages, and love the a real high quality, latte arty, style coffee. I was considering upgrading to a double boiler machine:

1.) Is it worth it, it would be a significant cost upgrade, which is fine...if the product would come out better as well.

2.) What would the recommended candidates be? My main concern is obviously quality of output, but also longevity. I can spend a little or a decent amount (top range absolutely would be 2700.......but i know $$ doesnt always equal quality.)

HELP!!!

The answer to "better coffee?" is almost always "better grinder," "better technique," or "better both." But let's start with:

• What's wrong with the "product" now? And,
• What do you imagine a DB would do better?

Rich

Nothing is wrong with my product now.

I imagine perhaps the steam power will help somewhat to get better microfoam 'easier' (this I know is probably silly)
Better coffee extraction due to stable temp control and knowing what the temp coming out is (to match better per roast).
In the end, a more tasty, velvety, smooth latte or the like.

I previously owned a Rocket EVO. The 4 hole steam tip from Chris Coffee is a good buy for better micro foam capability.

No offense but since you and your SO drink milk beverages I doubt you would notice any taste improvement with better temperature stability.

My advice is upgrade your steam tip and if you want to spend more money put it towards a grinder.

The only way this is an upgrade is if you go to a single group slayer. Otherwise, you aren't going to get much better coffee and the mid-range machines are water eaters, huge, and just aren't worth it.

The bigger steam boiler of your Rocket will give you more steam than a prosumer DB. But as Mike says, you might want to try a different tip for more speed.

The next step up -- a big step -- in steaming is a commercial HX like Mike's or mine (Cimbali M21 Casa). In my opinion, both machines represent a step up for "quality in the cup" also; while -- assuming you can temp your Rocket without too much difficulty -- a prosumer DB does not. But it's complicated.

On top of that, some people are just more comfortable with a DB, and that's a damn good reason to make the switch.

A lot of people do a very effective job of tasting all the nuances through milk and sweetener. I wouldn't presume to tell you what you can and can't taste, and will leave that to you. What I can say is that my wife, Linda, drinks sweetened lattes or long blacks with cream and sweeteneer and can sort through the nuances of bean, roast, technique and equipment as well as anyone drinking straight shots. In the quest for better lattes, better equipment may be a worthwhile investment.

Assuming you want to pursue this, a better grinder would probably be the most effective upgrade. What kind of grinder are you using now?

Rich

I currently have a Macap M4 Doserless.

My knowledge of temping the rocket is pretty sad, I just know that I need to flush for a second or so, so I do. Aside from that, I have no idea where on the map it lies in terms of temp. The quality is good (far better than most people have at home I know)...however, in terms of espresso, I am searching for great. The tip, may be a good 'tip', pun intended. I can get some good texture, but again - not great.
*and yes - I can taste the shot through the milk to good and the bad.

If there is another alternative to a Dbl boiler in terms of being able to create a better beverage. I am all ears.

Devin

re-considering replacement.
Does anyone have any thoughts on the Vivaldi II? (its moving away from a lever e61, but if the machine is solid and a great performer...)
of course my dream would be gs/3 - but its a bit of a monster for home use. :-/ I loved working on la marzocco's but they are demanding.

Vivaldi II is an excellent machine in its price range, but it's not on par with the above mentioned professional one-group Hx machine.

I have used the Vivaldi many times, and even though it has been paired with a Titan grinder, it never hit the same sweetness and separation of nuances like the T1 I used to own.

But it doesn't require the same OCD routine you have to go through with a commercial one-group machine, so if you don't like to temp surf, and are dying to know what temp your using, then a DB might be the better choice, but it won't deliver a better quality in the cup, and the steam is inferior to any one-group hx monster.

But the vivaldi is definitely one of the best steamer I have laid my hands on, in the Prosumer range.