True most people would run a big grinder like these at home without the hopper which makes them much shorter. There are lots of options from using no hopper to using a smaller hopper to using a tube. The Macap needs a consistent column of beans to produce the same grind every time so using the big hopper works well, but at home I opted for no hopper at all and single dosing with a weight on top (I cut a block of wood to fit the throat).

Also I'll add that although I really like the Macap titan I'm not sure it is very different from the Compak K10 or any of the other titan conicals. Like the others that I've seen it has a great build quality and it may be the cheapest of them (especially if you opt for the M7K instead of the electronic doserless version), but I think the differences in the grind quality between these beasts is probably pretty subtle.

Also I think Dan's comment earlier about expectations about the jump to a GS/3 from an E-61 also goes for the jump from a Super Jolly class grinder to a huge conical. There weren't trumpets blaring when I pulled my best shot off of it relative to my best shot off of my Super Jolly. On the other hand if I messed up the dose, the distribution, or hadn't dialed the grind in yet the big Macap was clearly better than if I did the same on the SJ. I guess you could say the difference feels more like Eine Kleine Nachtmusik playing gently in the background instead of the Ride of the Valkyries blaring in the foreground.

mb514 wrote:My meaning is that the M3 is a unique and relatively extreme interpretation on the single-dose philosophy. It is however, very appealing in its ultra-direct path, low waste, and aesthetic. What I worry about is that once the honeymoon is over and the setup resumes its workhorse function, will the careful placement of the beans remain charming or a source of frustration?; will I long for the speed that the K10 promises?; will replacement belts remain readily available? While I am asking these questions, does the wide open, front and center, design allow a child to insert a finger into a running grinder?

I have a Vario and an M3 but only a few months experience, but FWIW:
-Careful placement of beans? I just pour them in with a small cup. Is that what you are referring to?
-Speed? It's slow but ok with me. Vario is not much faster. Of course the titans are.
-Belts? Can't say, of course. A possible issue. Mine has been fine but is only a couple of months old.
-Finger? I don't see how. There's a central blocking cone that leaves only a bean sized opening around it.

Vs. Vario: can't say there is much of a taste issue. But the M3 feels like a solid, precise brick and (to me) is a pleasure to look at and touch, while the Vario is a nicely designed conventional appliance that works very well. I found Vario grind setting a little fiddly and not confidence inspiring, though ok. The M3 gives a cleaner pour with less prep, and the grind settings seem precise and repeatable. (I can't compare to a titan since I don't have one.) I will note that my M3 initially required me to do a little tweaking with help from Versalab. It's most suited to types who like elegant if quirky hardware. That having been said, I haven't experienced reliability issues and it's been a pleasure to own.

da gino wrote: ... although I really like the Macap titan I'm not sure it is very different from the Compak K10 or any of the other titan conicals.

Yes, the K10 and M7 seem to be worth mentioning in the same breath, many similarities and I think I would give either serious consideration. At this point, it seems the K10 Fresh availability is a bit of an unknown; I have a reasonable offer on the M7D, but it would arrive no earlier than April.

cpreston wrote:-Careful placement of beans? I just pour them in with a small cup. Is that what you are referring to?

From watching the videos, it seems like you have a relatively small opening in which to pour the beans. I am not (currently at least) weighing beans, so this may mean a change in process, albeit not a dramatic one. Just don't want it to end up being a source of frustration.

cpreston wrote:-Speed? It's slow but ok with me. Vario is not much faster. Of course the titans are.

Almost certainly not slower than my current grinder, but I love the way the K10 Fresh seems to almost instantly deliver the grounds in the available video.

cpreston wrote:-Finger? I don't see how. There's a central blocking cone that leaves only a bean sized opening around it.

Kids will find any opening, and coffee bean sized is all they need. My 4 year old son likes to bring his stool around and participate in the coffee process some mornings. I would hate to have that as a risk factor, although the searing heat of the machines should likely be a bigger consideration.

I may call and have a chat with the Versalab people.

The K10 w/o hopper is ~15.5"; mine has their Mini hopper, and it's ~19.5. Everybody says it look funny with that little hopper, but then they'd say it's too tall with the standard hopper.

Edit; here's the machines.

Very timely and useful information. That is almost exactly the height I today determined would be allowable. I think the small hopper aesthetic is great.

mb514 wrote:Very timely and useful information. That is almost exactly the height I today determined would be allowable. I think the small hopper aesthetic is great.

It looks really good until it cracks, which I can give you extremely high odds it will do in that grinder.

ken

Ken Fox wrote:It looks really good until it cracks, which I can give you extremely high odds it will do in that grinder.

Maybe not. I reported the short hopper on mine cracked in Solution to cracking Compak K10 mini hopper? back in 2009. Although it never cracked all the way through, I replaced it last year. The replacement hasn't shown any sign of cracking.

Looks like the K10 Fresh uses a different hopper design as well. Perhaps they listened to the complaints about cracking.

Ok, so this arrived on Friday and I spent much of the morning working with it today. Thanks to everyone who provided input on this decision.

I would not be so bold as to post a review, but I think there are some early impressions worth posting.

Build: I expected a good quality of build, but am thoroughly impressed with what was delivered. Really of a commercial quality; moving parts do so with purpose.

Different: I feel like I am learning to drive again, similar to when one changes cars. The thing that has thrown me off the most is the portafilter basket, which is designed to prevent tamping further than flush for the tops of the tamper and basket. This seems to force use of a certain quantity of grounds and also contributes to arguments often seen that the tamp pressure is not critical (or at least forces uniform tamping pressure with consistent grounds dosing). Myself, this has created a need for some new learning as I realize that I was using tamp pressure as a cheat for the imprecise fineness of the Moka grinder. The Moka was dropped earlier than expected in favour of a stepless doserless Innova, but that is clumping and has delivery issues which I will solve with a Baratza Vario on Monday, while I continue to wait and deliberate on the K10 Fresh.

Taste: To be honest, I am not yet sold on the apparent principle behind the filter basket design (it would seem to remove some control from the user), but one thing is clear: if I do grind and dose the way that is needed to make that work, the coffee is distinctly better than I am accustomed, in milk based drinks and especially in espresso. There is a depth of body and creaminess that was not there before; so far bitterness is non-existent. There are so many variables that may be causing this that it may certainly not be about the machine alone (e.g., it may be forcing me to drop some bad habits of my own), but this is the result.

Steam: I expected to have difficulty with the increased power. However, with moderation through the joystick, it is actually much easier and better. The improvement in milk texture and taste was the first thing that my wife commented on, and that alone seems to have won her over.