jfrescki wrote:Just be aware that we use SBDU (single boiler, dual use) to talk about Silvia class machines, where in 101, the article uses SBDU to refer to Heat Exchange (HX) machines instead.

Thanks for pointing out this discrepancy. I don't use the acronym "SBDU" and simply refer to single boilers as well, single boilers; the "dual use" suffix seems unnecessary given there are only a small handful of single boiler / single use designs in existence (e.g., La Peppina and La Caravel). But to avoid confusion, I've edited Espresso Machines 101 accordingly.

So just curious, but if I want to avoid the wait for temperature cycling between steaming and espresso, I can either get a heat exchanger or dual boiler, right? What are the prices for those types of units? Anything close to the $500 range, or are you looking for $1000 for a starter?

Are these stovetop steamers any good?

http://www.coffee212.com/ss-stove-top-steamer.html

back when I was using the Silvia I considered one, and keeping the espresso machine at brew temp.

chrisl wrote:So just curious, but if I want to avoid the wait for temperature cycling between steaming and espresso, I can either get a heat exchanger or dual boiler, right?

Right.

chrisl wrote:What are the prices for those types of units? Anything close to the $500 range, or are you looking for $1000 for a starter?

See Which espresso machine/grinder for $1500 budget? for recent answers to the same question.

benm5678 wrote:Are these stovetop steamers any good?

No experience with them, but Stephen demonstrated reasonable results in Microfoam possible on Bellman stovetop steamer?, including this video:

chrisl wrote:So just curious, but if I want to avoid the wait for temperature cycling between steaming and espresso, I can either get a heat exchanger or dual boiler, right?

There is the Third Way, the Way of the Lever. For some reason this is often considered "Not Suitable For Newbies", though levers predated electric-pump machines. Levers are not always cheaper, unfortunately. However, right now Orphan Espresso has a fully restored '97 Pavoni going for $575. I would snap that up myself if I didn't already own a Lusso 2-group.

http://www.orphanespresso.com/1997-La-P..._3699.html

Buona Fortuna,
Wayne

HB wrote:I don't use the acronym "SBDU" and simply refer to single boilers as well, single boilers; the "dual use" suffix seems unnecessary given there are only a small handful of single boiler / single use designs in existence (e.g., La Peppina and La Caravel).

Yes, well . . . there is -- for lack of a better term -- common terminology, and then there is HB's terminology?

Chris,

• Most people will refer to the design found in a Caravel, Peppina, etc. as an "open boiler design."
• Most people will refer to the design found in a Rancilio Silvia, Gaggia Classic, etc., as a "Single Boiler/Dual Use" design, or "SBDU" for short.
• Most people will refer to the design found in a La Valentina, Bezzera BZ07, etc. as a "Heat Exchanger" design, or "HX" for short.
• Most people will refer to the design found in a La Spaziale Vivaldi II, La Marzocco, etc. as a "Double Boiler" design, or "DB" for short.

In brief, an open boiler design cannot steam milk, as there is no way to build up pressure and produce steam. With an SBDU machine (to use common terminology and avoid confusion), you must wait for the machine to cycle up/cycle down between the brew and steam, steam and brew settings of the single boiler. With an HX machine, cool water is drawn from a built-in reservoir or a water line and is passed through the heat exchanger, where water from the boiler (always at steaming temperature) heats the water "in a flash" to brewing temperature*. In a DB machine, one boiler is set to brew temperature and the other to steam temperature.

Cheers,
Jason

* This is the same process used, for example, to "flash pasteurize" milk.

I discourage the use of acronyms, especially in "newbie" threads where it's nearly certain the original poster doesn't know what they mean. That said, I don't agree with Jason's assertion:

zin1953 wrote:Most people will refer to the design found in a Rancilio Silvia, Gaggia Classic, etc., as a "Single Boiler/Dual Use" design, or "SBDU" for short.

Limiting my search to the ~661K posts on CoffeeGeek and HB, Google reports it appears around 400 times. Sorry for being pedantic, but "SBDU" isn't common terminology.

chrisl wrote:- Budget-wise, I'd say I'm looking for a $400-600 machine.

It maxes out your budget, but the Le'Lit PL041TQE would be a sweet little machine for the price. It has a factory PID which allows you set the temp you want. The base model without the PID already has a great track record of performance and wouldn't be all that bad of a choice either. A little temp surfing practice and you'd be getting some decent results but I believe the PID would make the machine a lot more user friendly. I guess you'd have to decide if the PID is worth the extra $$ and time waiting for it's release. Personally, in your price range, this would definitely be the machine I would pick

good luck!
~j

HB wrote:Limiting my search to the ~661K posts on CoffeeGeek and HB, Google reports it appears around 400 times. Sorry for being pedantic, but "SBDU" isn't common terminology.

Actually, Dan, it's over 500, but that's neither here nor there. Feel free to be as pedantic as you want.