Twelve reliable years -- interrupted only by occasional affairs with drip and press coffee -- and my old friend Starbuck's Barista (which I've recently gathered is Saeco) begins having problems. I knew little to nothing about espresso before I began poking around the Interweb for answers...now my head is spinning with information and I would love the help of some experts, whether or not they have day jobs, so I came here.

The Plan: After a few hours of research, my plan was to spend $300-400 on a grinder right now, buy a non-pressurized portafilter and tamper for my aging Barista, and begin learning the craft. Buy a nice machine next year sometime and be set....Then the Barista pump really started to give way. The last shot I pulled was bitter and salty and had the consistency of motor oil.

Plan B: Help, please? I'm currently without ANYTHING that will pull a shot (including the Starbuck's installation 2 blocks from my house).

Habits: Between 2-4 shots per day. 2/3 straight shots, 1/6 iced drinks (summers in Missouri are hot!), 1/6 cappuccinos.

Budget: $500-700 now, another $300-400 around Christmas. (After nine years of marriage, I know now what I can get away with...especially after $6,000 in sound system upgrades in the last 6 months).

Needs: I want a decade out of my next machine. I don't see upgrading before then, for a variety of reasons, most of which are little people who share part of my genetic code.

The dilemma: I believe I have to purchase my machine first, then get a good grinder around the Holidays. I realize there is a lot of learning out there that says I should go 50/50 now and buy a cheaper machine and better grinder rather than live with a crappy grinder (or pre-ground coffee) for the next several months. But I think it's best to buy the machine first so I can increase my overall budget. I'm reasonable, however, so convince me if you think otherwise.

The contenders: Silvia, of course, and Gaggia Classic. Ascaso? What about ubiquitous brands like Breville and FrancisFrancis? And what else? And what other considerations? I've tried to explain where I'm coming from, but it may also help to know that I will not have a lot of additional money and time to spend on this craft over the next several years. I will be patient and learn as much as I can, but I don't see major upgrades or mods in my future, so I need a machine that really will last.

Thanks in advance for your help--I'll keep reading, but to the extent you can shortcut my learning with direct advice, I appreciate it. (And thanks for understanding I'm not into that whole brevity thing.)

If you want to make serious espresso on a meager budget check your local Craigslist and keep an eye on the coffeegeek buy/sell/trade forum. Espresso equipment is a lot like audio equipment. The good stuff costs a lot but it can last you a long time so it is worth it to get the best you can. It is also similar in that upgrade-itis causes people to sell great used equipment at a huge discount vs new.

Assuming that you don't immediately find the perfect craigslist gem, this is what I would do. I'd still get the grinder first, in this case a new Baratza Vario. They are hard to beat for the price, even against used stuff (and used Varios aren't sold at enough of a discount to make them worth it to me). Then I'd find a used Gaggia or Saeco in the $75 to $100 range. Save for a year for your next machine (HX!) while keeping an eye on the used market. Once you pull the trigger on your upgrade, throw the Gaggia/Saeco back onto Craigslist and you can get most of your money back out of it. There are tons of Gaggias and Saecos on the used market near me, I don't think you'll have much trouble getting one.

This plan will make your interim situation much better than going grinder-less and isn't going to increase your outlay of cash in the end.

Do yourself a huge favor and forget you ever stumbled onto this website.

Delete all your web cookies and erase your web history. Never come back here again, or to any other site that purports to promote quality coffee or espresso.

You have successfully used what most here would regard as cheap and essentially useless equipment for quite a while, and it has provided you with pleasure far exceeding your modest expenditures. If you stay here I can promise you that doing so will cost a lot, and your level of satisfaction with what you have produced will diminish, not increase.

Do yourself a huge favor and get the hell out of here while you still have time. I mean it.

ken

Ken Fox wrote:Do yourself a huge favor and get the hell out of here while you still have time. I mean it.

Words of the wise. Young'uns they never listen though!

Although Ken's remarks seem harsh at first glance I believe he is alluding to the old saying "Ignorance is bliss". If you're happy and your future budget is as limited as you say, stay the course. Eric has a good point about fixing what you have. But, I have to ask what kind of maintenance you've done over the years? What kind of water have you used, and if you've descaled at all? Ever replaced any gaskets? If none of this has been done I think you might be throwing good money after bad. Way back when, my 2nd machine was similar to what is now called the Gaggia Classic, there weren't a lot of choices, so I regularly had it serviced and slightly modified with a better pump. I got about 14 years before the boiler started to fall apart. I then went to a Silvia, which in hindsight was probably more of a lateral move BUT what I learned was the importance of the grinder. I had moved from a Gaggia MDF grinder to a Baratza Maestro to a Mazzer Mini. The Gaggia couldn't grind fine enough for the Silvia and the Baratza didn't last long while the Mazzer made a world of improvement in the taste of the espresso. So much so that it changed the type and COST of beans that I bought. You don't say what beans you normally use, what are they? So, back to Ken's point...Beware you are standing at the threshold of a long and slippery slope. If you knock over one domino the rest may fall, its in your nature if you have the audio equipment habit, and your wallet will be a lot lighter.

Chriscoffee doesn't really deal with machines of this level, but 1st-line does and I've had more than a decade of exemplary service from them. Jim and his crew may help with your decision process, maybe even a return that is sold at a discount.

edwa wrote:Beware you are standing at the threshold of a long and slippery slope.

No, its not slippery slope, that is too mild. It is black abyss. No that does not describe it, let me try again.

You are standing at the edge of the black hole. Just so you know...

edwa wrote:Although Ken's remarks seem harsh at first glance I believe he is alluding to the old saying "Ignorance is bliss". If you're happy and your future budget is as limited as you say, stay the course. Eric has a good point about fixing what you have. .....

Chriscoffee doesn't really deal with machines of this level, but 1st-line does and I've had more than a decade of exemplary service from them. Jim and his crew may help with your decision process, maybe even a return that is sold at a discount.

Thanks for all this helpful advice. I'll be brief: I'm not a tinkerer so I probably won't be trying to identify what's wrong with the Barista and fixing it myself. I'm ready to graduate to a real machine so this is a good opportunity. I did take your advice and call 1st-line. Spent 30 minutes on the phone with them and am now leaning toward the Le'Lit PL041QE. Coffeegeek reviews were helpful as well. I'm still up in the air about a grinder, but I have time to work on that b/c the Le'Lit is still on the boat. I have a few weeks to find a good grinder and scout out a good roaster in St. Louis.

By the way, I know what Ken et al. are getting at. But I already took a bite of the apple--a little bit of research to show the error of my ways and a few superlative shots in a Chicago cafe--so it's too late to go back.

compliance wrote:If you want to make serious espresso on a meager budget check your local Craigslist and keep an eye on the coffeegeek buy/sell/trade forum. Espresso equipment is a lot like audio equipment. The good stuff costs a lot but it can last you a long time so it is worth it to get the best you can. It is also similar in that upgrade-itis causes people to sell great used equipment at a huge discount vs new....

Assuming that you don't immediately find the perfect craigslist gem, this is what I would do. I'd still get the grinder first, in this case a new Baratza Vario. ... Save for a year for your next machine (HX!) while keeping an eye on the used market. ...
This plan will make your interim situation much better than going grinder-less and isn't going to increase your outlay of cash in the end.

Great advice. I will not be going grinderless, you have certainly convinced me of that. I'm not convinced my habits require an HX machine, so I will cross that bridge a couple years from now if I feel I need to upgrade.

By the way, the audio is an even more apropos analogy than you may think b/c I recently upgraded from a mass market "high end" audio manufacturer that basically sells garbage--not naming any names, but they make really small speakers and sell them in shopping malls--and had a similar eye, or ear opening experience when I heard a really good speaker system for the first time after 12 years with Bose--oops!! I named them.

Thanks to all.

I spent a decade with a pair of Starbucks Barista machines. I thought I was making very good cappuccinos. Never had a complaint, on the contrary, my friends raved about them. When the Baristas died, I bought a Lelit PLO42LET or combo with a built-in grinder. In hindsight I would have bought a separate Lelit espresso machine and Lelit grinder for easier maintenance but I love my set-up. It has a small footprint as well. I now used fresh roasted beans and grind per shot and must say the results are spectacular. The machine has a user friendly learning curve. I paid about $750. and think it's worth it. I don't regret my purchase and the drinks are great. Good luck with your decision.

Mike B

Mike,

The Lelit PL53 has to be on my shortlist. I'm really trying to keep my overall under $700. With the Lelit PL041QE at $400, I'm thinking the Lelit grinder at $269 is my best option. Sturdy construction and stepless. The Rocky or Baratza Vario would put me well over budget. The Baratza Virtuoso has the benefit of easily switching for other coffee modes, but I have a blade grinder for when guests want drip or press, so I'm not sure that's a great option.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear you're still happy with the Lelit setup. Upgradeitis can be curbed, apparently. Or are you itching to step up? How long have you been using the Lelit?