lawn_wrangler wrote:Thanks for all this helpful advice . . . I did take your advice and call 1st-line. Spent 30 minutes on the phone with them and am now leaning toward the Le'Lit PL041QE. Coffeegeek reviews were helpful as well. I'm still up in the air about a grinder, but I have time to work on that b/c the Le'Lit is still on the boat. I have a few weeks to find a good grinder and scout out a good roaster in St. Louis.

First of all, Steve, let me (belatedly) welcome you to HB.

Secondly, you may want to check out this list of favored roasters. While I posted it, it is not "my" list but rather a list I compiled from those roasters frequently recommended by several long-time posters.

lawn_wrangler wrote:I will not be going grinderless, you have certainly convinced me of that.

Good idea. The "Rule of Fifteens" would certainly advise against it.

lawn_wrangler wrote:I'm not convinced my habits require an HX machine, so I will cross that bridge a couple years from now if I feel I need to upgrade.

You may not. (Although I should say it is -- or rather, can be -- a rather slippery slope indeed!) I have an SBDU machine similar to the Le'Lit for some 25 years before upgrading to an HX machine in December 2006. But -- as you've discovered -- you do need a grinder, and one piece of advice is to "get the grinder you want with your next machine."

Cheers,
Jason

lawn_wrangler wrote:Mike,

The Lelit PL53 has to be on my shortlist. I'm really trying to keep my overall under $700. With the Lelit PL041QE at $400, I'm thinking the Lelit grinder at $269 is my best option. Sturdy construction and stepless. The Rocky or Baratza Vario would put me well over budget. The Baratza Virtuoso has the benefit of easily switching for other coffee modes, but I have a blade grinder for when guests want drip or press, so I'm not sure that's a great option.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear you're still happy with the Lelit setup. Upgradeitis can be curbed, apparently. Or are you itching to step up? How long have you been using the Lelit?

I've only had the Lelit set-up for about 4 months so I'm not thinking of upgrading anytime soon. The quality of the drinks and good results I'm getting keep me happy. The most important thing I've learned since the Starbucks Barista days is the freshness of the beans plays a vital role in quality of the shot. You're doing the right thing, read and ask questions and take your time. Whatever you decide, you'll probably have it for a while. Good luck.

Mike

shadowfax wrote:Abid Clever

Hmmm...fascinating device reminiscent of a Vietnamese coffee brewing method. I appreciate your suggestion. Unfortunately, I'm too jazzed up about learning the espresso art to turn back at this point...

Kaldi's is currently my source, so I will work on getting to know them better to make sure I get the fresh stuff. They have the distinction of running the only Clover in St. Louis, which brews a fantastic cup of American coffee.

zin1953 wrote:First of all, Steve, let me (belatedly) welcome you to HB.

Thanks Jason! A couple early "welcomes" looked more like invitations to show myself the door. Anyway, the links are very helpful.

Coming from a similar set up this is my experience so far:

Many years with Saeco Aroma with Pressurized PF (same as Barista I guess ...). Reliable and consistent coffee.
Whatever you put in the machine will come out with a certain degree of "acceptability". Though there is much truth to the motto "garbage in , garbage out", these machines are ultra forgiving for coffee grind, roast, age and tamping. The machine does it for you, period, with no gimmicks nor chemicals. Is just the way is designed. I think is an excellent machine for the ratio $$/quality. Though more orthodox users might consider a PPF a heresy, it does what is supposed to do: extract the best of a mass produced/pre grounded coffee. Add up a good/fresh coffee and the end product will be even better, with much aroma and crema. Is true is foolproof but if you explore a bit with grinding and tamping (yes, the Instruction manual says don't tamp and use grounded coffee with a grind suitable for percolator machines, I think experimenting DOES improve the end up result). For me, "acceptable" is beyond "average" or "mass produced" and this combo is quite on the spot, again, good $$/quality ratio... I grew up in a wine producing country, starting sipping wine at Sunday's lunch at 13-14 y/o and later on drinking glasses of all sort of different wines my Country produces.. In a way I was "educated" or so I thought ..... I moved overseas and my eyes and palate were open to a whole new varieties of wines, old and new world. Tried literally hundreds of wines from many places other than my country. After a few years the circle was "closed" and today I enjoy wine as it is ..... and appreciate the best ones from my place as from any other place. Sorry to deviate on the subject but for me is the same as for coffee : "the best one is the one you like the most" and for sure, after trying many different ones, you can separate the "good ones" from the "bad ones" ....

4 months ago, wanting to go "beyond" my set up,I bought a La PAvoni Europiccola + Macap M4 grinder. I struggled for weeks trying to obtain something that I could drink. Not even close to my Saeco !.... Fresh coffee, tamping, grinding ... just recently I'm drinking coffee from my La Pavoni and I know there is a LONG way to go ... but I'm happy, learning. In a morning rush, just turn on my Saeco and have my coffee. If I wake up 20 min earlier, I can play with my Pavoni. I'm happy and enjoy both.

Bottom Line from my humble side : Keep your Barista (fix it) and invest in a Top notch grinder that would be suitable for ANY machine so you can extract the best of it with the best coffees (and use the grinder for any potential future machine you might buy) or go for a Lever machine + grinder and a whole new world will open in front of you.....
Cheers
Mauricio

My .02c....

Having owned an Ascaso (which followed a Barista), I would not suggest buying one. The reason being, they can be difficult to find parts for and the parts are very expensive since Ascaso is restrictive with their distribution. Our Ascaso dream cost about $200 a year to keep running... although it was definitely a nice step up from the barista otherwise.

We owned the Barista for a few years, then the Ascaso for 2 years, then a La Pavoni Pro Lever for a year +, then recently went to an E61 (Isomacc Millenium). We went to a Rocky Doserless grinder with the Ascaso. This whole time I have also had access to a La Marzoccho 3-group/ mazzer at work...but less than fresh beans... so I definitely prefer making coffee at home!

So far....The La Pavoni pulled the best shots, was practically free to maintain, and was a lot of fun to use! very cheap to maintain. BUT you have to be willing to spend some time learning the nuances of the lever AND they are very sensitive to coffee freshness. 2-3 drinks is about all you can make in one sitting before things overheat. Levers are not for everybody, but I really enjoyed ours.

I got the Isomac of Craiglist.... after fixing several leaks, cleaning inside & out, replacing gaskets and a few other parts and spending 6-12hrs of my time on it, I have $535 into this machine (retails for ~$1500+ new). So if you are on a budget I definitely suggest browsing CL and eBay!

Grinder is also the main thing I would spend your money on....rocky doserless is a great grinder if you are on a tight budget. I know you will find some poor reviews here, but modifying the step-adjustment mechanism goes a long way towards bridging the gap between the rocky and more expensive grinders.