So I'm looking for some advice here.

First let me set the stage with what level of espresso drinker my wife and I are. We both really appreciate a good cappuccino. We love having the really great microfoam and I love playing around feebly trying to get some latte art going.

That said, I don't think my palate or that of my wife's is anywhere NEAR as sophisticated as most folks on here. Our typical morning beverage is a double shot into two shot glasses, those are dropped into two warmed 8oz coffee mugs (each waiting with 3 packets of splenda in them), and then I froth my milk in my 20oz pitcher pour it roughly evenly between the two mugs and off we go. A cappuccino without some type of sweetener just tastes bitter and terrible to me. An espresso shot straight is absolutely horrible. I've tried many times thinking this is the epitome of what espresso is all about and have never gotten a taste for it. Then again, I'm not a black coffee drinker or even a beer drinker. Even if I make tea I need a little bit of sweetness to allow me to actually taste the flavors.

Now I know many might think, well I'm doing something wrong. I'm not brewing the espresso properly or I would like it better. And I am by no means an expert. I have a nice silvia machine that I've PID'd and a nice rocky grinder. I have researched the crap out of how to brew the best shot etc.

I buy locally roasted beans from a place that ONLY roasts beans. They are stored in an air tight and light tight container. I try to use them on the 3-5th day after roasting as that seems to be best.

I have the grind tuned in, the tamp pressure down to the 30-40 pounds of pressure. My shots take an average of 26 seconds to brew two 1.5-2.0oz shots into two little shot cups. I can tell the difference in taste if it runs too fast or takes too long. But even with all that, straight espresso just tastes bad to me. I've toyed with finding a REALLY well known good espresso bar and having them draw me the perfect shot out of their $40,000 machine so maybe I can try an actual "God shot".

Anyway, so that's where my palate is. A nice cappuccino with really good microfoam and sweetener and I'm a happy guy.

So... All that said, I'm slowly being lured into the next level of machine. I'm looking around at some of the nice HX machines (The Rocket and the like) maybe one with an E61 grouphead as that seems to be the latest rage. I like the idea of having limitless dry steam. Being able to make really good nice dry microfoam is really appealing. But is it worth shelling out the type of money I would have to, to move to that level of machine? I'm sure I could probably sell my Silvia with the PID, the V3 steam wand, and brand new boiler for a decent amount to off-set at least some of the cost, but we are still talking a chunk of change. And since my palate really doesn't seem to be sophisticated to appreciate all the subtle nuances of a REALLY good espresso, am I just being stupid? I mean, I can tell if the beans are crappy quality, or old, or the shot has been drawn way to fast or way to slow. But that's about as far as I go. And again, my shot is going to get dropped into a sweetened cup of frothed milk.

So should I just chill and stay with my PID'd Silvia? Will moving to a nice HX machine rock my world?

I'd really appreciate any advice from you guys. I'm sure many have made the leap from the Silvia level of machines up to the more serious hardware. I'm just not sure if it's going to be worth the money etc compared to the difference in my experience.

Joshua

jgottlieb wrote:I've toyed with finding a REALLY well known good espresso bar and having them draw me the perfect shot

Do this first for the learning experience. Better yet, find 2 or 3 good bars and compare. If you can, also try some milder SO beans brewed as espresso; I suggest starting with natural/DP Brazils, but Indonesians or Monsooned Malabar may also appeal if you are averse to bright, acidic coffees. I only came to really love black espresso once I began home roasting, with its many options for beans and blends, but many bars nowadays brew more than just the "house" espresso blend. You stand to enhance your enjoyment of coffee in general, and will likely clarify any future upgrade path.

jgottlieb wrote:Our typical morning beverage is a double shot into two shot glasses, those are dropped into two warmed 8oz coffee mugs

I would ditch the intermediate shot glasses; all they do is subtract crema, richness and heat. You should be able to get two 8-oz. mugs under dual spouts, even if you have to angle them.

If the single morning beverage which you described truly constitutes all your daily use, you don't need a machine upgrade; with proper technique, your machine can produce espresso and microfoam comparable to the big boys, only the espresso will likely be more variable, and the foam will take longer. If you are contemplating additional daily usage or entertainment of guests, that's another matter. Right now, your PID obviates the temperature-surfing hassle, and a single daily brew/steam cycle is not so onerous. If it were me, I'd upgrade the grinder first. My progression was Rocky -> M4 -> K10, and there was a distinct jump in consistency of results and in cup quality with each step. Other than the M4, popular midrange grinders include the Mini and the Vario.

I had a Silvia and Rocky and was always adding sugar to my cappuccino, a year ago I updated to ECM Giotto and it is much better in terms of steaming capacity and ability to brew and steam at the same time. I was still adding sugar, fast forward to now, updated to Mazzer Mini E type A, using Apollo espresso beans my wife who doesn't use sugar asked if I added sugar to her cappuccino, by the taste bitterness is gone, and now I enjoy it without any sugar added. Long story short it is true what they say about grinder, it makes a huge difference.

Interesting you should mention the grinder. It's driving me a bit nuts. Rather than repost, could you read the post I did in the grinder section? I'm curious as to your thoughts... Ranciilio Rocky Doserless grinder - Should I just give up on it?

Even moving to a PIDed Alexia (single boiler) from the Silvia will rock your world. There's simply no comparison. One of the Quickmill HXs would definitely do the trick!

jgottlieb wrote:Interesting you should mention the grinder. It's driving me a bit nuts. Rather than repost, could you read the post I did in the grinder section? I'm curious as to your thoughts... Ranciilio Rocky Doserless grinder - Should I just give up on it?

Sounds like you got plenty of good advice in that thread. I second using a dosing funnel, whether bought (e.g. Orphan Espresso) or improvised (yogurt cup). I've only used the doser version of the Rocky, but I wonder if the doserless messiness you experience is due to static charge and/or velocity of the exiting grounds. A doser (any doser) helps with both of those, and a large fraction (most?) of HBers employ dosers for these reasons, even though many (most?) always single-dose.

Capps on my cheapo gaggia are sweet or balanced. What is the real water tmp coming out of the group? Remember there is an offset between PID temp and brew temp... prob a fair bit coolr.

Bitter means its too hot or your grind is too fine for your dose. Bitter can also be elated to the roasts you are getting. If its roasted too dark and you are dosing too high could be bitter and roasty.

Be sure you differentiate between sour and bitter. Sour means too cold or too coarse for your dose.

As Schulman says, if you want sweet, dose lighter and grind finer... And use the right temp and roast level.

I found my local roaster roasts too dark so now I do my own.

i should also add that rather than judging shots by time and volume you should judge them by the viscosity and colour of the pour. Thick and tiger stripe brown to caramel then stop before it goes beige thin and translucent. Then compare your stop time to the magical time and volume suggestion.

Before you think about getting a HX, think more about getting a better grinder. Most likely your money would be spend much better there.

The Silvia, mated with a good grinder, is capable of making good cafe quality coffee, once you adjust for it's temperature fluctuations (which you have). The main benefit you'll get from going HX is being able to make coffee faster, and consecutive coffees faster.

Get a second hand Super Jolly ($600) or a second hand Major ($800).

SJs are a dime a dozen. Major's are less common, but I'd get one of the SJ if one popped up for around 800

Source- Silvia with grinder progression: Rocky -> SJ -> Robur

Based on your post I'm guessing you, like most of us, have a compulsive personality. Sounds like you have enjoyed exploring the limits of Silvia and are looking for a new challenge. The fact that you are considering a new machine means that it is only a matter of time. Embrace your compulsive nature, feed the monkey and keep exploring.

genovese wrote:I would ditch the intermediate shot glasses; all they do is subtract crema, richness and heat. You should be able to get two 8-oz. mugs under dual spouts, even if you have to angle them.

If the single morning beverage which you described truly constitutes all your daily use, you don't need a machine upgrade; with proper technique, your machine can produce espresso and microfoam comparable to the big boys, only the espresso will likely be more variable, and the foam will take longer. If you are contemplating additional daily usage or entertainment of guests, that's another matter. Right now, your PID obviates the temperature-surfing hassle, and a single daily brew/steam cycle is not so onerous. If it were me, I'd upgrade the grinder first. My progression was Rocky -> M4 -> K10, and there was a distinct jump in consistency of results and in cup quality with each step. Other than the M4, popular midrange grinders include the Mini and the Vario.

The main reason I pull the shots into the two shot glasses is to keep an eye on volume vs time etc. After all these years, I hit the right amount within the right time about 95% of the time. But I guess I like to keep an eye on it in case the humidity spikes or something and I get a really bad shot. I'm at 7000ft elevation and so humidity ranges wildly from insanely dry to a big front move over the mountains and suddenly it's 85% humidity. I am wondering about the upgraded grinder. But again, I don't know how much "I" will be able to notice with a different grinder given my limited sophisticated palate.