Rita Endres wrote:Any tips on where I can get a used Nuova Simonelli Appia Single Group Automatic?

For home use, a single group HX machine is a good fit for many baristas. But in your situation where the staff may change frequently and the need for lots of steam is paramount, I recommend a double boiler espresso machine. Although the La Spaziale Vivaldi II is sold to home baristas, it was actually designed with the needs of small cafes/bookstores/restaurants in mind. A Flojet and five gallon bottle on a cart could make for a turnkey solution:


Randy's J.C. Penney cart from Home espresso setup

Get two of these, put industrial wheels on it, then work from one and serve from the other. Buy a used Super Jolly grinder off eBay, replace the burrs and you're good to go for around $3K.

Dan,

Do you think that the S1 will out-perform the NS Appia? I am generally for the dual boiler approach, but I would think that machines like the Elektra or Simonelli would top most other machines in that price range regarding duty cycle ability, including the DB Vivaldi. I can't remember exactly who posted their experience with the Vivaldi (I searched a bit for it earlier with no luck), but IIRC, the user was serving drinks at a trade show and stated that the machine couldn't quite keep up. I could be wrong, and the Vivaldi may work just fine.

Matthew Brinski wrote:I am generally for the dual boiler approach, but I would think that machines like the Elektra or Simonelli would top most other machines in that price range regarding duty cycle ability, including the DB Vivaldi.

You're right, the S1 doesn't have the steaming capacity of the really big boiler HXs (e.g., the Elektra A3 has a six liter boiler and draws 2000W; the Nuova Simonelli Appia has a five liter boiler and draws 1500W; the S1 has a 2.5 liter steam boiler and draws 1250W). The S1 could run into problems if everyone orders "venti" lattes, the barista is fast, and they're limited to 15A service. But with 20A service, your average barista, and only an occasional big gulp latte, I think they'd be OK.

Matthew Brinski wrote:I can't remember exactly who posted their experience with the Vivaldi (I searched a bit for it earlier with no luck), but IIRC, the user was serving drinks at a trade show and stated that the machine couldn't quite keep up. I could be wrong, and the Vivaldi may work just fine.

IIRC, that was Larry (of Rocket Coffee Roasters). I couldn't find the post either, must've been on CG?

It's likely that people will want the same thing they get from Starbuck's, lots of steamed milk with a little espresso. Meaning you need good steaming capability, not to mention a refrigerator for the milk. Flojet to 5 gallon bottle should do fine. And I'd go with an automatic. Get a used Mazzer Super Jolly, probably need to replace the burrs.

You can do drip as well, even a french press or three and use the hot water tap on the machine for those.

Everman wrote:It's likely that people will want the same thing they get from Starbuck's, lots of steamed milk with a little espresso.

Now that you put it that way, maybe a *shudder* super-automatic is a better choice? Or for an even cheaper setup cost, a couple Nespresso units? I know, I know... I cannot believe that I'm suggesting such mediocrity either. But the investment is tiny and they can decide later if a more serious setup is justified. The sad truth is the majority of the churchgoers will find the super-automatic / Nespresso lattes as good as their usual Starbucks haunt.

I have been thinking about how to get better coffee in church/other larger gatherings too, and the best idea I have come up with so far, if you have people sitting at tables wanting coffee/tea, is to set up a vac pot (for instance, a Cona type C, which will serve 4 people, perhaps even 5 or 6) and a small grinder directly on each table. This would cost too, vac pots aren't for free, but the really really big advantage is you don't need to have all the coffee people lining up to wait for their cup. Instead they can chat along with their friends at the table while watching the vac pot do its thing and munching cookies or sandwiches or whatever it is you usually have to eat. Surely, everyone could learn to how work a vac pot. If not, a french press would be easier, but not as much fun of course.
Edit: misread your numbers, sorry... changed.
Anyway, for serving 50 people, you will need more than a two-group. Unless you have lots of time.

zix wrote:I have been thinking about how to get better coffee in church/other larger gatherings too, and the best idea I have come up with so far, if you have people sitting at tables wanting coffee/tea, is to set up a vac pot (for instance, a Cona type C, which will serve 4 people, perhaps even 5 or 6) and a small grinder directly on each table. This would cost too, vac pots aren't for free, but the really really big advantage is you don't need to have all the coffee people lining up to wait for their cup. Instead they can chat along with their friends at the table while watching the vac pot do its thing and munching cookies or sandwiches or whatever it is you usually have to eat. Surely, everyone could learn to how work a vac pot. If not, a french press would be easier, but not as much fun of course.
For 70 people you will need more than a two-group. Unless you have lots of time.

The "at table" vac pot idea sounds cool, but I wouldn't do it for safety reasons.

Yeah, you are right of course. With many people together, things usually happen. You would need some burner that is saf(-er). Methanol burners of the "oil lamp" type, like on the traditional Conas, would be out of the question of course. A good vac pot stand would be needed. On the other hand, a water boiler + press pot/eva solo/aeropress would be more or less risk free. Not for free, those either, of course.
Perhaps this would only work with smaller groups, up to 20 or so.

I've looked locally for a machine (upon recommendations for getting it serviced) and found out from one of the coffee shops in town that a restaurant supply retailer has a Rancilio Epoca DE available. A small sandwich shop north of here bought it, used it for a week and decided they wanted to keep making sandwiches. She paid $3850 for it and will sell for $2500.

My question is, do these only come in 2 groups? I'm trying to find more info online about this particular machine. Unfortunately the retailer doesn't know anything about it. (He told me the model number was ET0CA DE.)

Can anyone put a link here where I can find out more? I need to present a cost justification to my boss.

Thanks,
Rita