boar_d_laze wrote: I stand by my description of the Speedster as a straight pump machine because even if it has a baroque preinfusion scheme, there's no provision for the user to vary pressure during the course of shot itself.Rich

If you start with manual P/I & get a slow 12 second ramp to line pressure, then engage the pump for a x number of seconds before switching back to the manual P/I function for a nice slow 7 second declining pressure profile as the pressure drops back to line pressure you've pretty much covered most of the typical pressure profiles I see folks playing with.

While the Speedster's shot profile may be the typical profile often seen people playing with and a typical lever profile if I understand correctly it is the ONLY shot profile it is capable of. The only variable user has is how long at pump pressure before dropping back to line pressure, much like the type profile control I have with the Cyncra at the Roastery. This is not the same as being a pressure profile capable machine. Which isn't to say the Speedster isn't capable of fantastic shots of a given style, but that's not the issue or discussion.

Remember that the Speedster does not have an internal pump, whereas the Slayer does. This would be significant for a number of us.

That's the main reason I didn't buy one. I really didn't want to outboard a pump. Were I once again a home owner and not subject to moving every 2-4 years for work I may have chosen differently.

The Slayer is still plumb-in only, which was a major strike against it for me. Yes, I could have ran it on a bottle, but that requires real estate, a noisy Flojet, and an accumulator.

The drawbacks for me could be of little to no importance to anyone else. Each person has different needs.

If you have to plumb in a machine all the external motor/pump adds is an electrical cord to the input line running down through or across your counter top.The water feed to the pump would be underneath. My machine sits over the hole in the counter top so you never see any of it. The motor unit fits on one side of a small shelf under the counter top. Removing the motor/pump from the machine frees up space which makes maintenance much easier & further isolates the noise. From the reviews I've read noise does seem to be an issue with the Slayer's gear pump.

JohnB. wrote:From the reviews I've read noise does seem to be an issue with the Slayer's gear pump.

Which is why Nicholas mentioned outboarding his on his Slayer.

Compass Coffee wrote:While the Speedster's shot profile may be the typical profile often seen people playing with and a typical lever profile if I understand correctly it is the ONLY shot profile it is capable of.

That would be the profile if you just select the pump function. Using the manual P/I with it's 12 second ramp to L/P with a finer grind prior to selecting the pump function you can pull long, slow shots that run over a minute similar to what has become known as a Slayer style shot. That's just one possibility.

It's true that the Speedster doesn't offer the ability to manually pressure profile but with the profiles that Kees has designed into the current Speedster I'd hardly consider it a "straight pump machine" nor would I compare it directly with your Cyncra.

JohnB. wrote:That would be the profile if you just select the pump function. Using the manual P/I with it's 12 second ramp to L/P with a finer grind prior to selecting the pump function you can pull long, slow shots that run over a minute similar to what has become known as a Slayer style shot. That's just one possibility.

Its not same as Slayer shot. Slayer at factory set needle valve flow rate would be maybe at 1.5 bars at 12 seconds mark and it keeps climbing as long as you keep it in pre-brew mode. And you can regulate needle valve to regulate flow rate and influence this time. Key difference being that the pre-brew phase is controllable with needle valve and is significantly gentler than what Speedster or Synesso does.

Speedster once P/I of 12 seconds to line pressure is done will continue extracting coffee at line pressure. Slayer does not do that... Additionally if you did not want the 12 seconds PI on Speedster you can't change that in any way, its fixed... So you have pretty much one pressure profile and that's it. You can extend line pressure extraction but that's about extent of control it offers... Its not nearly as useful and flexible as what Slayer does...

Since the Speedster wets the puck at near zero pressure initially I seriously doubt that the Slayer P/I is any gentler. If you don't want 12 seconds of P/I you simple switch to the pump function sooner.

How does the Slayer not extract coffee after 12 seconds or ? if the pressure continues to build as you say it does. Where is the water going?? If you set the needle valve to a specific flow rate & the pump is feeding it at full pressure how does the pressure continue to increase during the pre-brew phase.

JohnB. wrote: Where is the water going??

Via bypass in the drain.
Long story short, by shot quality I doubt that there is anything better than a Slayer.
By surface and built quality or however you call it, Kees is the man.