Ok, we are allowed to dream, and these two machines are my absolute ultimate 'end game' choices.

Given the choice - I honestly do not know which one I would choose, as they seem to be incredible in their different ways.

So the question is, between the two, what would you choose and why? And a GS3 does not count

Discussed before. Here's a link to just one of the threads.

Thanks, saw it - figured maybe we were ready for another one with a head to head between these two. Guess not, will re-read - perhaps everything has been said.

Why not get both of them and eventually get rid of the one you end up using less?
It is more or less a matter of personal choices.

Personally I'd go for something completely different, but that is another story...

What kind of a grinder you have/will be using?

Now there is a suggestion - why didnt I think of that?

But re-reading old threads, I am starting to grasp that it is more a question of aesthetics and looks, than technology differences between the 2 machines. One big plus for the Slayer in that department is the many customization options, I guess.

Grinder: HG One currently, could one day be the Mahlkonig Peak. (If it lives up to expectations)

thedane wrote:Re-reading old threads, I am starting to grasp that it is more a question of aesthetics and looks, than technology differences between the 2 machines.

Not really. The Speedster is a straight pump machine with user controllable preinfusion, while the Slayer is a true pressure profiler. If you don't see that as a huge difference, don't buy a Slayer.

Also, the Speedster is well out of its teething period (if it ever had one), but current production Slayer single groups seem beset with a couple of problems, including intra-shot temp stability.

The common ground is that they're both double boilers and expensive to the point of being "Veblen goods."

Rich

boar_d_laze wrote:
The Speedster is a straight pump machine with user controllable preinfusion, while the Slayer is a true pressure profiler. If you don't see that as a huge difference, don't buy a Slayer.

I may be wrong, but I thought the Slayer didn't do pressure profiling but rather allows you to vary the flow rate and this is their differentiator.

Distinction without a difference, IMO. Higher flow into a given load = proportionally more pressure; lower flow into a given load = proportionally lower pressure; and -- by virtue of the identity principle -- vice versa both times.

As I understand it, flow vs pressure profiling is more about implementation (e.g., needle valve vs gear pump) than what happens at and in the puck.

Rich

boar_d_laze wrote:. Not really. The Speedster is a straight pump machine with user controllable preinfusion, while the Slayer is a true pressure profiler. If you don't see that as a huge difference, don't buy a Slayer.

Also, the Speedster is well out of its teething period (if it ever had one), but current production single group seem beset with a couple of problems, including intra-shot temp stability.

I 'd have to disagree about the Speedster being a "straight pump machine". While it does use a normal commercial rotary pump the relocation of the .6mm jet prior to the brew boiler & the PPI Chamber give it a lever machine ramp to full pressure every time you select the pump function.

To quote Kees: "The pump is pressurising the system against the jet. Full 9 bar pressure exists till that jet. After the jet, with group solenoid open (1.5mm orifice, so 250% of that jet), there barely is any pressure. The initial fall of all pressure provides a magnificent pre-infusion, identical to the lever group for example: coffee is wetted, no pressure.

Only when the coffee is thoroughly saturated and swelled, pump manages to re-pressurize the full path through coffee boiler till the coffee puck, as there is now back pressure. Pressure slowly rises to the full 9 bar, no steps, no hammering on the puck."

As to the "couple of problems" the only recent machine that I've heard about with issues was the lender that Devon was using & tested. No one else has had that noise & stuttering flow issue & it could quite possibly have been related to the water feed. This was also the only machine that anyone has posted temp graphs of lately so I wouldn't read too much into that. Dan will be starting the Speedster review shortly & maybe he can do some Scace testing & post the results??

I meant that the Slayer has teething problems, but accidentally omitted the word "Slayer" in the operative sentence. Corrected.

I stand by my description of the Speedster as a straight pump machine because even if it has a baroque preinfusion scheme, there's no provision for the user to vary pressure during the course of shot itself.

Rich