First off, I love coffee! I have decided to broaden my horizons and get into home espresso. I have always enjoyed espresso just never invested in home equipment. Nows the time and I am in the market for a good grinder for starters. I use a French press at home and am looking for a good grinder that I can use for my French press and espresso as I will eventually purchase a machine. I have seen many grinders on the net for half price, seems like there are good deals out there. Looked at one recently that regular price 700.00 on sale for 350. I guess that's about my price range. Any suggestion greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance
Jason

Racer19,

If you can, please list some of those "half-price grinders" (brand and models) so we can evaluate them re: grinding well enough for making espresso...I'm thinking that none of them would really be suitable for espresso (just guessing though as I'm not sure which ones you've seen). You don't have to list them ALL, just some -- so we can get a ballpark idea of what you're considering for espresso.

French Press/Drip is another story, as you could get away with a cheaper/less-capable grinder...but not so for espresso.

But it's good you're looking for and focusing on the grinder first since it's more important than the espresso machine itself.

-- BR

Turns out that it was a refurbished model and is not listed anymore. With that said, honestly how much should I expect to spend on a decent grinder? I hate to spend allot, as I'm the only one in the house that will use it. I'm think 400.00 450.00 range. Grinders with good reviews seems to be significantly more. Thanks for your reply.
Jason

You should read How to choose an espresso machine and grinder at the "right" price and take its suggestion to search on "budget grinder". You'll find lots of previous discussions in every price range.

In your price range for espresso, many recommend either a used Mazzer Super Jolly ($350 to $400) or Baratza Vario ($479 new). Another alternative is skipping an espresso grinder for now and saving your money. A good grinder for French press is the Baratza Encore or Virtuoso (see Which Baratza Grinder is Right for You? for their recommendations). Yet another alternative is a manual grinder like the Orphan Espresso LIDO. It's a price performer, assuming you're not preparing coffee for a crowd.

-- deleted --

Sorry...I'm gone.

-- BR

BillRedding wrote:For example, looking at Baratza grinders, their Vario model is considered "entry level" for espresso...

Huh? It wasn't that long ago Jim Schulman and others tested the Vario against the Mazzer Super Jolly and called it tie:

another_jim wrote:For what it's worth, at Sherman's last Chicago espresso meetup, we were (yet again) using the Jolly and Vario side by side, and there simply was no difference in taste or user preference. This confirms (yet again) a half dozen or so side by side shot making episodes. The Vario is clearly not a commercial product, but Baratza and Mahlkoening make it a standout as far as well built, well supported, consumer products go.

So it comes down to your own preference for something indestructible versus something better suited for all around home use.

Do I hear an echo on these threads?

By Baratza's recommendations and consistent with my experience, the Preciso ($229) is their "entry level" espresso grinder.

The Baratza Preciso is actually $299 (new) nearly everywhere. The Virtuoso (sometimes, confusingly called the Virtuoso Preciso) is $229. The Vario is $500, although it can be bought for $375 as a fully guaranteed refurb directly from Baratza, and for a little more can be had with metal "brew" burrs.

The Encore is good for brew, marginal for French Press, and totally inadequate for espresso. The Virtuoso is brew very good, good FP, and espresso inadequate. The Preciso is brew very good, good FP, and espresso adequate. The Virtuoso with metal burrs is brew borderline excellent, very good FP, and espresso very good.

You hear about so many problems with Varios related to grind adjustment down in the espresso range, that -- even though they're well supported and most of the problems can easily be fixed by the user with free factory parts and guidance -- despite their huge bang for the buck in the cup any recommendation as an espresso grinder should be caveated. That said, grinding very fine as for espresso puts a great deal more stress on the mechanism than grinding medium or medium/coarse for brew, and you don't hear many complaints from people who uses their Varios brew only.

Breville makes a couple of grinders which compete straight across with the Baratza Virtuoso and Preciso. Respectively they're the Smart (Model 800) and Smart Pro (Model 820). The Smart goes for around $200, and the Smart Pro for around $230; and most BB&B stores will honor their 20% discount coupon despite the Breville exclusion.

What makes the Preciso and Pro adequate for espresso as compared to their less expensive cousins is the amount of adjustment allowed. By way of example the regular Smart only has about 25 grind settings, while the Pro has 60 and 60 is... well... adequate.

I've never used a Pro, but have read a bit on various boards -- for instance, it appears to be the entry-level espresso grinder of choice on Espresso Snobs (Australia) -- and it seems rated about as good as the Preciso, and significantly less expensive.

We used a Smart as our brew grinder for a few years for pour-over, siphon and press and were pleased with it. It's as good as a Virtuoso or Preciso, but not as good as a Vario for those purposes, and of course inadequate for espresso. I think Breville's burr carriers and adjustment mechanism may be a little stronger than Baratza's; and also like that the Breville hopper can be made airtight.

Rocky's are pretty good brew grinders, but irregular compared to the Baratzas and Brevilles at the coarse French press end of the scale. And I'd say based on the general consensus and my own opinion as well that they're no longer considered even "adequate" for espresso. On the other hand, they're nearly bullet proof.

At the exalted level of exceptional espresso and brew, most of us use separate grinders for each purpose. The only grinder I can think of which is at least "very good" for espresso and brew, and strong enough to go back and forth on a regular basis and hit the dialed in espresso grind consistently is the Baratza Forte, which is well out of your price range.

For the time being I suggest buying a Smart, Vario (with metal, brew burrs), or Virtuoso for brew only; and holding off on the espresso grinder until you buy the machine.

Rich

Good catch. Corrected.

Thanks,
Rich

I've decided to go with the Baratzo Vario. Thank you all for your comments. Now I'll begin researching the machines, I'd like to keep the price under 1k. Open to suggestions. Thanks again