My family and I are accepting the idea of spending more money for an espresso machine. I know everyone in going to tell me to buy a $400 grinder first, but lets not talk about that.

What would be a good starter machine?

I would like the machine to be consistent, reliable(Have a lifespan of at least 1-year), produce microfoam, and I wouldn't care so much if it was labor intensive. This is all I ask for $500 or less (Refurbished and used machines welcome)

KingKaiser wrote:My family and I are accepting the idea of spending more money for an espresso machine. I know everyone in going to tell me to buy a $400 grinder first, but lets not talk about that.

What would be a good starter machine?

I would like the machine to be consistent, reliable(Have a lifespan of at least 1-year), produce microfoam, and I wouldn't care so much if it was labor intensive. This is all I ask for $500 or less (Refurbished and used machines welcome)

In all honesty, you have come to the wrong place to post such a question.

If the question is, what inexpensive machine can I buy that I can use, which will produce acceptable results with already ground coffee, or coffee that is to be ground with a cheap grinder, the honest answer is that there is no machine on the planet fitting this description that will please most of the people who inhabit this website. This is because we have "been there, done that." Without a decent grinder and beans ground just before making the shot, to the right grind level (which one only knows after one has tried), the effort is entirely futile.

In partial answer to your question, the cheapest machines you can buy which produce acceptable results when judged only as espresso machines, are the Gaggias. But I would not waste the money buying such a machine if I was going to feed it preground coffee or coffee ground with a blade grinder. In that case, save yourself a lot of grief and buy yourself a pod machine, like a Nespresso. It won't make "real espresso" as we define it here, but the results will be a lot better than you will get with a Gaggia and a blade grinder, or supermarket pre-ground coffee.

ken

KingKaiser wrote:I would like the machine to be consistent, reliable(Have a lifespan of at least 1-year), produce microfoam, and I wouldn't care so much if it was labor intensive.

I spent $280 on a used pavoni EP-8 and $15 on a used Zassenhaus hand grinder 8 years ago. Both still work well and make very good (I would say 'stellar' but I've had little opportunity to compare against other HBers) espresso. It won't quite cover your 'consistent' criterion unless you learn to control the heat and measure your gram dose, but it will fill the labor intensive bit and you will learn alot. I think I would have to spend 10+ times that to do better.

I should add that it only took 7 years to achieve consistent microfoam, but you might be quicker on the uptake.

Jay,

Let's back up a bit to begin.... Do you drink coffee now? What coffee do you use? How is it prepared? What machines or other coffee brewing devices have you used or owned? Which ones did you like/dislike? What coffee-making equipment do you currently own? How many people will the machine serve? How many drinks in a session will you usually make? All leading up to...

What is your priority? Are you looking to make espresso, and espresso only, or is your priority to make the best coffee possible? This is important because, within your budget there are some other methods that can make great coffee for less money.

Ken Fox wrote:In all honesty, you have come to the wrong place to post such a question.

If the question is, what inexpensive machine can I buy that I can use, which will produce acceptable results with already ground coffee, or coffee that is to be ground with a cheap grinder, the honest answer is that there is no machine on the planet fitting this description that will please most of the people who inhabit this website. This is because we have "been there, done that." Without a decent grinder and beans ground just before making the shot, to the right grind level (which one only knows after one has tried), the effort is entirely futile.

In partial answer to your question, the cheapest machines you can buy which produce acceptable results when judged only as espresso machines, are the Gaggias. But I would not waste the money buying such a machine if I was going to feed it preground coffee or coffee ground with a blade grinder. In that case, save yourself a lot of grief and buy yourself a pod machine, like a Nespresso. It won't make "real espresso" as we define it here, but the results will be a lot better than you will get with a Gaggia and a blade grinder, or supermarket pre-ground coffee.

ken

KingKaiser wrote:I know everyone in going to tell me to buy a $400 grinder first, but lets not talk about that.

Ken, I never said I would using preground coffee or be using my $12 blade grinder. I actually roast my beans weekly and sometimes buy fresh roasted coffee when I feel like trying something new. Now as for the grinder, I found a zassenhaus-brand box grinder which I tested earlier and found to be great! It is slightly corroded but the grinding mechanism is fine, just needs a new drawer.

Also, why would a Gaggia not be worth the $320. So far the Gaggia's I've seen are very appealing but not as much as a Rancilio V3.

Chert wrote:I spent $280 on a used pavoni EP-8 and $15 on a used Zassenhaus hand grinder 8 years ago. Both still work well and make very good (I would say 'stellar' but I've had little opportunity to compare against other HBers) espresso. It won't quite cover your 'consistent' criterion unless you learn to control the heat and measure your gram dose, but it will fill the labor intensive bit and you will learn alot. I think I would have to spend 10+ times that to do better.

I should add that it only took 7 years to achieve consistent microfoam, but you might be quicker on the uptake.

I might have the same grinder as you, it has a half sphere on the top of the box and says coffee in german on the front. Once I get a machine I will accept the microfoam challenge.

Randy G. wrote:Jay,

Let's back up a bit to begin.... Do you drink coffee now? What coffee do you use? How is it prepared? What machines or other coffee brewing devices have you used or owned? Which ones did you like/dislike? What coffee-making equipment do you currently own? How many people will the machine serve? How many drinks in a session will you usually make? All leading up to...

What is your priority? Are you looking to make espresso, and espresso only, or is your priority to make the best coffee possible? This is important because, within your budget there are some other methods that can make great coffee for less money.

Hi Randy,

I have a keurig k-cup machine I don't much anymore. I believe it's a b60 model. After that machine I bought an aeropress along with a bag of organic green Sumatra bean I roasted in a popcorn popper . Last was a Bodum french press I was given. I've been using the FP past 2-3 weeks with a $10 bag of Cameron's organic french roast blend from amazon(Really surprised me) and I treated myself to A bag of 100% Kona coffee(med. roast) also. I would definitely choose the FP over any of my other coffee makers because of the overall body and the number of servings one can make at a time. Now with an espresso machine I think I would pour about 4-5 shots a day; Three in the morning and two in the afternoon.

In my opinion I can already make a pretty good cup of coffee. My experience with espresso is short, I've had no more than Ten good espressos, but they were amazing! So, my main goal would be to make espresso with a generous amount crema in my home.

Jay

A gaggia classic or a lelit, with your hand grinder and good fresh coffee should make a pretty good shot.

I have a classic, but it is heavily modded, with a PID and pressure gauge and a few other things, and it can pull a good shot.

Are you going for straight shots, or milk drinks?

Randy

Randy,

I would like to make milk drinks as well as a good shot. Can you tell me how much was spent in modding your gaggia classic?

Thanks,

Jay

Same old story.

I'm in the "used Gaggia or Saeco" and "hand grinder" camp myself. I used that combo for years and got what I consider to be very good espresso (I think its great, but don't often get to compare it).

A used lever machine, like a Pavoni or Ponte Vecchio is also a good option for pairing with a hand grinder for under $500.

Come to think of it, I'm still using a Ponte Vecchio/hand grinder combo every day for five years for great espresso. And I just acquired another Ponte Vecchio (Sama in fact) that I'm going to pair with another hand grinder for more great espresso at work.

PC