I am looking at trying to land a used super jolly for a decent price becuse they highly regarded by many here and did well in the Titan project.

But I can't help to think, should I be considering other grinders?

My price range range is $600ish.

Any guidance is much appreciated.

If you can provide us with more information on your use, needs, wants, dislikes, etc, we can offer a bit of input, but as it stands, such a broad generalized question is likely to not pick up much in the way of valuable input.

Indeed, I currently have a Vario, but it's being used for espresso and pourover. The back and fourth is driving me crazy. I would like an upgrade in espresso grind quality.

Espresso only on weekends, typically between 2-6 shots over the weekend. I tend to single dose. I am not too worried about the size, doser/doserless, timer/no timer. Mainly looking at grind quality, I can work around the rest. But in an ideal world, doserless and no timer. I would like the ability to really dial in, I did look at the Macap M4 and like the worm drive concept.

I hope this helps narrow some things down, with my OP I guess I was looking for grinder options within the same price range and didn't think past that. I appolgize for the vaugeness.

With more consideration here is the question I am trying to answer:

Will there be an improvement in the cup going from Vario to Macap M4 and/or SJ? If yes to both, is it worth spending the extra for the SJ over the M4?

IntrepidQ3 wrote: Espresso only on weekends, typically between 2-6 shots over the weekend. I tend to single dose. I am not too worried about the size, doser/doserless, timer/no timer. Mainly looking at grind quality, I can work around the rest. But in an ideal world, doserless and no timer. I would like the ability to really dial in, I did look at the Macap M4 and like the worm drive concept.

Have you considered an Orphan Espresso Pharos?

Matt

I did not think about a hand grinder. I suppose its an option if I can come by one. They seem to be a find that is few and far between.

I use one. It's very good for small quantities of espresso. The way to get one seems to be to log on to the Orphan Espresso grinder site often, and when one pops up for sale, grab it. If you didn't like it, you'd probably get your money back and then some given that demand outstrips supply.

Matt

IntrepidQ3 wrote:Will there be an improvement in the cup going from Vario to Macap M4 and/or SJ? If yes to both, is it worth spending the extra for the SJ over the M4?

An M4 or SJ won't significantly outperform a Vario in the cup. The "signatures" for all three grinders are: (1) Reasonable separation; (2) Reasonable spectrum; but (3) A very bottom heavy balance. The M4 and SJ are considerably better built than the Vario. The Vario is significantly more convenient than any grinder with a manual doser. The Vario has exceptionally low retention and is well suited for single dosing -- which is perhaps a bit ironic when you consider how good its electronics are.

If you want a real difference in the cup, you've got to at least step into the "big flat" class, which includes grinders like the Mazzer Major and the Mahlkonig K30 Vario (even though it's got 65mm burrs). The H-B consensus (count me in) is that a big conic would be even better.

Used big flats and big conics occasionally pop up in your price range.

A Vario for brew, and a good, big flat for espresso eats up a lot of space and finances, but each approaches -- without quite reaching -- "the best" for their respective purposes.

Rich

Hi Tom,
I own a SJ and have used a Vario. My impression from the owner of the Vario I tried and from others on HB seems to be that the more you switch back and forth from drip to espresso on the Vario, the more likely you are to need service.

However, most here seem to agree that the SJ is probably about equal in the cup to the Vario. The SJ is certainly better put together and a LOT more durable. But buying a SJ will probably not gain you much in taste and will be noisier, take up lots more counter space, and be more difficult to dose/adjust.

What about a drip dedicated grinder, such as the Baratza Virtuoso? Then you can use your Vario for espresso only and you'll be out only $250. If you're really keen on getting improved flavor in the cup, save up some more money and get an HG One or try to score a Pharos. If you're only making a few cups on weekends, the extra diddling around you do with the Pharos will be fun and not annoying.

Unless you find an exceptionally good deal on a used large Titan type grinder, you won't find anything else worth moving to for less than about $1500 (new).

Thank you for all the input.

[Regarding grind quality/ cup improvement]

I really thought the SJ might show an improvement compared to the Vario due to its raves in the TGP...

I guess what I have gotten out this is that the SJ, Macap M4, and (since its in the same price range) Mazzer Mini all have relatively the same grind quality as my current Vario. If this is correct I can really just make my decision on aesthetics and whether or not I want doser/doserless?

.....

[Regarding drip dedicated grinder and espresso dedicated grinder options]

The switching back and forth on my Vario is driving me mad! Its a waste of beans and time to dial in every time I switch from espresso/pourover/presspot.

I did have a Virtuoso and Preciso when I first started my coffee journey. Long story short, there was a lot of issues and I had to send them back more times than anyone should, so I was upgraded to a Vario (I do like the Vario, but would not go to their 'lower end' products)... I am sure that this was unfortunate and rare situation, either way I would like to move away from Baratza with a grinder that has a better build.

I have thought about getting a the Breville Smart Grinder as a drip dedicated... But I think it looks a tad cheap IMHO and would rather have that 'clean classic' or 'modern' (HG One fits this) look sitting on the counter, would also make the girlfriend happy (always a positive!).

With that said, maybe I'll keep an eye out for a deal on a HG One/Pharos.


Side note: In the next year I am looking at upgrading my Gaggia Classic to an HX, currently eying the Alex Tre. Would be nice to have a grinder that pairs up well, unless my Vario already will...

I am open to other opinions.