HB wrote:Hal's comment provides a good excuse to plug the site's Guidelines for productive online discussion including this reminder:

+1

Endo wrote:But most importantly........ I have no coffee industry affiliations.

I sincerely hope that is not your most important qualification for advising others, Endo. Expertise would also be desirable.

That being said, spending much time as an aficionado in the coffee world often leads to relationships with professionals. You meet coffee people. You talk coffee. You like them. You meet them again. Now you have a "relationship."

When someone criticizes a coffee blend or a machine, you see, not just the beans or the machine, but the people behind them. Yes, it can create conflicts. Unfortunately, if you eliminated all the people with "coffee industry affiliations" from Home-barista.com, you would eliminate some of the most knowledgeable participants (not to mention its owner).

Marshall wrote:I sincerely hope that is not your most important qualification for advising others, Endo. Expertise would also be desirable.

That being said, spending much time as an aficionado in the coffee world often leads to relationships with professionals. You meet coffee people. You talk coffee. You like them. You meet them again. Now you have a "relationship."

When someone criticizes a coffee blend or a machine, you see, not just the beans or the machine, but the people behind them. Yes, it can create conflicts. Unfortunately, if you eliminated all the people with "coffee industry affiliations" from Home-barista.com, you would eliminate some of the most knowledgeable participants (not to mention its owner).

I have no "coffee industry affiliations," whatsoever. This does not however mean that I am not FOS.

ken

hperry wrote:I assume that this sweeping generalization is supported by substantial personal experience with the machine?

The price is posted online these days so you no longer need to look for a pricetag on the machine.

I own the cheaper Dalla Corte with the horizontal boiler (aka Mini Vivaldi). I understand exactly what the differences are and feel no need to demo this machine in order to make a general DB comment.

Like I said, I like the Dalla Corte brew head design. But the price difference is too high for the slight taste improvement that can be made through improved intrashot temperature stability. And yes....this is my opinion.

Thanks for all the information and enthused discussion.

Grinder - I have a stepless iberital MC2 which I am comfortable with - used it enough to "feel" the grind adjustment and it works well enough. More importantly - any changes on the kitchen counter need to be incremental.

Loved the comments from Rob0888 - and the idea that a coffee machine is apparently made by "Vinnie" or some other gangster type - and thanks for the reality check/roadworks example.

Also thanks to Rob for the succinct no discussion opinion.

And indeed to all contributors for sharing your knowledge and taking an interest in my domestic problem - at least as it relates to good coffee!

Next question - can anyone guide me on what to look for in a bean? How does anyone distinguish what qualities a bean will offer before it gets into the cup?

A telling factoid: "small" is treated as a noise-word on H-B.com.

No posts were found because the word small is not contained in any post.

The Olympia Maximatic (£1,960 from Londinium Epsresso) comes in at 7.68" wide X 13.39" deep X 14.57" high.

I've heard good things about their coffee, too, from people in the UK. That said, living in California, I have not tried any of their beans myself.

The Rancilio Silvia (£359 from Caffè Italia UK) is 9.5" wide X 11.375" deep X 13.625" high. It's a solid single boiler/dual use machine, but there is no comparison between the Silvia and the Maximatic! Whether it's 5½ times the machine is up to you, but for me -- yeah. It is. (Note: I have the Maximatic's predecessor, the Olympia Cafferex [built in 1989]. It's great!)

By the way, the Silvia is 108 square inches on the counter top. The Maximatic? 102.

Cheers,
Jason

Hi guys,

remember this:

HB wrote:That said, it may surprise other home baristas to discover conveniences that are not among the Maximatic's features:

• No steam boiler autofill (solution: allow machine to cool, remove cap atop the boiler, fill using sight glass to confirm water level)
• No vacuum breaker (solution: from a cold start, allow machine to warm up a few minutes, bleed some steam from the steam wand, then the boiler will continue heating to full pressure)
• No water tap (solution: draw water through the group or use a separate source like the microwave or hot pot).

[from Maximatic second look by Dan]

A bit shite for a machine with such a price tag.

Regards,
dsc.

Tom? Look here.

From the website:

Unlike the CREMINA, the MAXIMATIC has two water tanks: the fresh water tank and the boiler. The fresh water tank contains 3.17 pints and can be refilled while the MAXIMATIC is in operation.

Your solution describes the CREMINA.

Hi Jason,

it was Dan who had this is his Second look article, so I wasn't really checking other sites to confirm. Still the swiss description isn't very clear, at least to me. What do they mean by fresh water tank? is that a plastic water tank at the back of the machine like every pour-over machine has or something else?

I thought that the Cremina and Maximatic are pretty much the same, except for the pump.

Regards,
dsc.

Hi guys,

still it's a fact you have to fill it manually and you have to purge it as it has no vac breaker. Not sure if it's the most 'easy to use' or 'latte friendly' machine.

Regards,
dsc.

dsc wrote: ... still it's a fact you have to fill [the steam boiler] manually and you have to purge it as it has no vac breaker. Not sure if it's the most 'easy to use' or 'latte friendly' machine.

Easy is, like small size and quiet, also subjective. An HX machine that had no auto-fill does not suffer from the drop in temperature that results when cold mains water is injected into the boiler. So temperature management might be easier.

I believe that Olympia discontinued the vacuum breaker valve as they tended to get stuck with scale. (Bob Craige IIRC posted something to this effect a few years ago.) So in that sense, not having to worry about the vacuum breaker is a kind of ease of use. Purging a boiler of false pressure can hardly be considered difficult.

There's nothing in the Maximatic's design that would keep make me question its ability to perform in a home setting. Just how many lattes does one need to make at home, even at a dinner party? The single-group would be the bottleneck well before the machine's steaming capacity were being pushed to its limits.

HB wrote:The Maximatic is an HX espresso machine similar to the Elektra Semiautomatica, i.e., steam boiler that's filled manually and no water tap. I wrote off the manufacturer's reference to the steam boiler as a second "water tank" as a poor translation from German or a poorly worded marketing blurb. BTW, the Maximatic's water reservoir is made of steel, not plastic.

Having not had a new Maximatic in my hot little hands, I am going solely by the manufacturer's website. So, clearly, if it is a mistranslation, poor choice of words, etc., I stand corrected.

That said, my "Maximatic predecessor" -- the Olympia Express Cafferex -- does have a separate water tank and boiler. I can add water to the reservoir at any time. I can also re-fill the boiler at any time, BUT is it not automatic: I must push and hold the button in order for the pump to re-fill the boiler.

The vacuum breaker on the Elektras is certainly a rather rudimentary affair and does not cause problems - or at least hasn't for me over a number of years - but then I use filtered water. I have also heard that Olympia had scaling problems. Responding to them by getting rid of the vacuum breaker seems a bit drastic, but I don't frankly see having to bleed off the false pressure as a disaster. I have to do the same thing with my own Cremina. And I quite like the KISS approach.

More to the point for the original poster, Olympia and Elektra both have very definite ideas about what they want an espresso to taste like and the results are different, so if you can... try before you buy. It shouldn't be that difficult in London. I am sure you will be able to get a demo of the Maximatic from Londinium. You may be able to get a demo of the Elektra from Fairfax in Swiss Cottage - unfortunately they won't have very good grinders or coffee (in my opinion). Maybe you could line up the visits on the same day and take some from Londinium....

The Elektra SA and Maximatic are both very well made, but the looks and heat question may decide you and your wife before anything else. Overall the Olympia build quality is better and I believe you will get better local support from Londinium than from any of the UK Elektra dealers. The Maximatic is also quieter, which you indicated was important. Dan may be able to help with this, since I think he also has experience of the Elektra.

Flavourwise - if you like SOs, especially some of the more complex fruity ones, you may prefer the Elektra, which delivers a lighter body (strangely with very good mouthfeel) but separates out the different "layers" of flavour with more finesse and distinctness than many machines can muster.

You may prefer the steel Maximatic boiler to the brass Elektra, though I can't say it's anything that would bother me.

But you're very lucky. There is a great review of the Elektra here by Jim (in The Bench), as well as by Mark Prince at coffeegeek and Dan is writing one on the Maximatic here right now.

If the money is no problem, I reckon these two machines are amongst the very best small footprint choices you could make for appearance, build quality and above all results in the cup that you can get for the home despite not having the latest generation PIDs and LCD displays.

Oh - one last thought - and a stupid but possibly helpful one: if you are going to be installing the machine away from a sink you may prefer the Maximatic, above all to its bigger drip tray. Also the Olympia requires very little flushing to clear grounds from the portafilter holder, the Elektra somewhat more, mainly due to its more limited headspace.

Cheers

Mike