Bluecold wrote:I came here as a newbie and i learned here that it is totally possible to make very good espresso with 200 Euro worth of kit and good coffee.

storky wrote:This is exactly what some of us (newbies) are looking for - how did you start, how did you improved, etc. Of course, with that equipment it will also take me years to perfect my espresso, but sometimes you don't just have thousands to start with premium equipment.

I believe the idea is that a newbie who asks for a $300 equipment advice (like I do) doesn't want to get from that the kind of espresso you get from a $2000 machine, but the type that you were getting when you started into the coffee thing.

mb1k wrote:OK,

As a NEWBIE I have to speak up. Yes, some of the comments and prevailing attitude here is very elitist. I think many posts have the air of turning up a nose at the newbie and automatically going "there" with the "if you ain't spending $1,700 on a prosumer machine and buying the Rocky as a minimum you don't have the right to say you've tasted real espresso". Yeah... from the POV of a lurker and now member, that's what you guys sound like. Belittling comments like "drek" and "steam toy" may be appropriate, but you're not welcoming us newbies with open arms here.

That being said, don't forget most of us are probably here for a reason. Me, my journey started with a garage sale Gaggia Carezza discarded by some rich persons yard sale. My office mate and I bought some Lavazza, and then Illy preground and discovered that the "drek" we were slurping was sooo much better than anything we've have out of a drip machine or even *$!! We soon discovered the inconsistency of a machine at this price point and that's what let us to educate ourselves. We wanted to make more consistent shots, minimize the bitterness, and maximize the crema.

The average newbie here would be shooed away easily by your dismissive comments and snobbery. I'm a bit more thick skinned. Maybe my annual salary allows me to buy a prosumer, or maybe it doesn't. But should you treat me in such a way that I'll have given up on the pursuit before getting a chance to be informed and discuss the craft? Just things to think about.

When going through college I paid my way by selling stereo equipment. You may have heard of some of the brands: Mark Levinson, B&O, Nakamichi (just dated myself), Martin Logan, etc. I saw how the full timers and long term career salesman belittled the newbies as they came in the store. Yah... sure showed them didn't you? Showed them not to spend money in our store! Wooo-hooo! Congrats.

Food for though and my 2¢ worth.

Joe