Saying hello and sharing my espresso equipment thought process so far!

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
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Fausto
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#1: Post by Fausto »

Hi everyone!

I've been into coffee seriously since 2010 when I went to my first 3rd wave shop and had a cappuccino unlike anything I had ever tasted before. My current coffee equipment includes:
8-Cup Bonavita, Aeropress, Bodum Chambord French Press, Baratza Virtuoso, Porlex Mini

About two months ago I decided that I'm ready to take the next step in my personal coffee journey and get into espresso! Since then I have spent a ton of time lurking on this forum and others, watching SCG videos, visiting Clive Coffee and SCG - Portland, and basically just soaking up as much information as I can! I'm a complete researchaholic.

The only shots I have ever pulled in my life were at the Portland shops. The first was on a BDB using a Baratza Vario and the second was on their Slayer using a Macap MXD! Despite my inexperience they were two of the best shots of I've ever had. I'm a pretty good mimic and a quick learner. Monkey see, monkey do.

I don't plan on buying anything until September (when the budget will permit it), but I plan on buying everything all at once when I do. Here's where I currently stand:

Machine: I want a Slayer, but that's 10 years down the road, so living in the present...I'm heavily leaning towards the BDB, but I'm not usually the type of person to buy tools/machines/products of sub-excellent quality - it's just hard to ignore all those features! That being said, I'm also really trying to consider the Lucca M58 and Profitec Pro 700. They come closest to the features of the BDB without getting too crazy expensive - love the shot timers and rotary pumps (and really love the joystick valves on the Lucca!) I have read of quite a few people having issues with the BES900XL BDB (although Breville seems to be taking care of people), but so far the BES920XL seems to be more reliable - at least in the first year. I also love the idea of the auto-on of the BDB, I'm not a morning person and I know I'll get more use out of it with that feature - plus even if I don't use it, the BDB can heat up a lot faster than any e61 machines I've seen. The BDB doesn't have the joystick valves, but the steam lever is really nice. Anyway that's my current thought process on machines - I haven't made up my mind yet - I'm secretly hoping for something new to come along by September that really separates itself from the pack (although that seems unlikely with SCAA just having passed).

Grinder: I know my Virtuoso isn't up to the task. For a while I was strongly considering the Baratza Forte (both the BG and AP) with the hope that I could use it for all of my coffee grinding needs, but with the Vario's supposed tendency to drift, I'm worried it won't work well enough for espresso. Now I'm leaning towards just keeping the Virtuoso for everything else and getting a dedicated espresso grinder (I'm sure that is music to all your ears!) I don't like to waste coffee and am already very used to single dosing with my Virtuoso for all of my brew methods, so I don't want anything that retains much at all. I also don't like dosers and don't want to be Thwacking away at 7am in my house. So as far as I can tell that only leaves a few options: The Vario/Forte - which I've already expressed my reservations about, the Versalab M3 - which has it's own issues and is super expensive, the HG-One - perfect in every way I can think of except that I have to do all the work myself! So I guess I'm leaning towards the HG-One, but I still really like the Forte. I know people will want to suggest Mazzers, Macaps, Mahlkonigs, etc., but can any of them match the HG-One in the cup that isn't monstrously huge? I want easily adjustable, low retention, relatively quick, not huge, not crazy loud, big burrs...I want it all!

Thanks for reading, and for creating such an awesome community, I am really looking forward to being part of it.

brianl
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#2: Post by brianl »

While I love the HG One, it is monstrously huge, haha. I was hoping to add a motor too it but that seems like too much work for the inept tools I own. I doubt you'll get much from people who have tried all the machine and most just recommend whatever they bought. So I can tell you that the vetrano 2B (I added steam and hot water stick valves) and HG One are great :).

I picked my machine because i'm still in an apartment and needed a machine switchable between tank and plumb. I also didn't want to fuss and just wanted to walk up and go. E61 DBs are all pretty similar, so I didn't want to shop on the high end of the market as, like you, I still have a dream machine to get (which will probably have a saturated group). The HG One I will probably replace with a motorized grinder when something better comes out. It seems like most motorized machines at this quality level just have too much retention for my OCD self.

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Fausto (original poster)
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#3: Post by Fausto (original poster) »

brianl wrote:While I love the HG One, it is monstrously huge, haha.
It's got a big footprint, but It still seems much smaller than some of the big titan's!
brianl wrote:The HG One I will probably replace with a motorized grinder when something better comes out. It seems like most motorized machines at this quality level just have too much retention for my OCD self.
See, that's what I fear about the HG-One - despite the fact that it could easily last my whole life if I wanted it to..I'm not sure I'll want it to (at least I know I could always sell it). Motors were invented for a reason! But I don't want a big commercial grinder, I basically want a motorized HG One Sumo (the smaller concept one). No sacrifice in cup quality, minimal space, and a slow quiet motor.

Beezer
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#4: Post by Beezer »

As far as machine choices go, there are many great machines out there right now, so it's hard to go wrong. From the sound of it, you're kind of a perfectionist (just like most of the people on this board) so you might not be satisfied for long with the BDB, even though that's an excellent value machine. If you can afford something like a Lucca or Profitec, why not go for it? At least you wouldn't feel the need to upgrade for a long time, if ever.

As for grinders, it's hard to get one with huge burrs that isn't pretty huge as well. That said, I got the Compak K10 WBC, and while it's a big grinder, it doesn't look out of proportion next to my Alex Duetto. I put the smaller hopper on it, though, which keeps it from seeming too enormous.

If you're looking for a good grinder that's not too large, your choices are much fewer. The Forte is probably the best small grinder you can get. I haven't tried one, but it's basically a commercial version of the Vario, which is a very good grinder for its size and price. The issue with the grind settings drifting on the Vario seems to have been solved on the Forte, which has metal adjusters that are much harder to move. The only problem I have with the Forte is that it uses the same burrs as the Vario, which are quite good, but not quite as good as the big commercial conicals. If the Forte had better burrs, it would be unbeatable for home use. As it is, it should be about the same as the Vario in terms of flavor, but superior in terms of build quality.
Lock and load!

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Fausto (original poster)
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#5: Post by Fausto (original poster) »

Beezer wrote:As far as machine choices go, there are many great machines out there right now, so it's hard to go wrong. From the sound of it, you're kind of a perfectionist (just like most of the people on this board) so you might not be satisfied for long with the BDB, even though that's an excellent value machine. If you can afford something like a Lucca or Profitec, why not go for it? At least you wouldn't feel the need to upgrade for a long time, if ever.
I guess it's just because the BDB has so many features that you still don't get out of an Italian machine, I realize the quality isn't as good, but it's packed with features. Just a question of priorities really, and I'm not sure what mine are...
Beezer wrote: The Forte is probably the best small grinder you can get. I haven't tried one, but it's basically a commercial version of the Vario, which is a very good grinder for its size and price. The issue with the grind settings drifting on the Vario seems to have been solved on the Forte, which has metal adjusters that are much harder to move. The only problem I have with the Forte is that it uses the same burrs as the Vario, which are quite good, but not quite as good as the big commercial conicals. If the Forte had better burrs, it would be unbeatable for home use. As it is, it should be about the same as the Vario in terms of flavor, but superior in terms of build quality.
I would just sort of feel stupid having a Virtuoso and a Forte next to each other, while I wouldn't feel stupid having a Virtuoso and an HG-One next to eachother...how stupid is that! If I got the Forte and I wanted it to be good for espresso I would get the AP, but if I got the AP I couldn't use it for french press (can't go coarse enough). If I got the BG I could use it for everything, but it wouldn't be nearly as capable as the AP in the espresso range from what I've read - which is not something I'm willing to compromise one. So I would get the AP and either stop making french press or keep my Virtuoso (which I don't want to do just for a once a week french press). OR I could get a grinder that is obviously dedicated to espresso and just have it be very clear that these are two different animals. Tough decision! I'm not buying until September, so maybe Baratza will come out with a dedicated espresso grinder in a small package with super low retention by then...or HG-one will come out with a motorized grinder! Stranger things have happened.

Intrepid510
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#6: Post by Intrepid510 »

I am pretty sure after a few times of switching back and forth on a Forte you won't feel stupid for keeping your Virtuoso around.

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Fausto (original poster)
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#7: Post by Fausto (original poster) replying to Intrepid510 »

Lol, I've only gotten to play with a Vario before, but why do you say that? If I remember that my espresso grind is a 3Q and my Aeropress is a 5X and my drip is a 6X and my FP is a 10X then can't I just switch between them with an empty hopper? Is there any proof out there that I won't get repeatable results or is it just assumed?

brianl
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#8: Post by brianl »

You need to sacrifice a lot of coffee to clear out the grinds when you switch settings. Otherwise you'll be getting French press grinds in your espresso!

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Barb
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#9: Post by Barb »

Faustian
Nothing wrong with having a Virtuoso and a Vario or Forte side by side. That is what I have currently. The former I use for coffee and the latter for Espressos.
I am most likely going to purchase an HG-1. In the near future when I upgrade my espresso machine but for now the two Baratzas sit next to each other on my counter

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Fausto (original poster)
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#10: Post by Fausto (original poster) »

Barb wrote:I am most likely going to purchase an HG-1. In the near future when I upgrade my espresso machine but for now the two Baratzas sit next to each other on my counter
I hear ya, just a silly hangup on my end. I think I'll be happy with either the HG-One or the Forte, or both! They both seem excellent. Anyone want to weigh in some more on double boilers? Any other machines with built in shot timers and/or auto-on programmability that I'm missing?

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