I just discovered this site and have been absolutely blown away by the amount of information available on it! I'm what you would call an Espresso Newbie or Rookie for lack of a better term. I'm just learning that making a great Espresso is an Art and requires a tremendous amount of expertise, experience as well as decent equipment. I've recently upgraded my Espresso Machine to a Rancilio Silvia (I know.. Its not perfect but its a start...) and its time to upgrade the Grinder. I've got a Krups GVX2 (I think thats the model) and the extraction with the Silvia is horrific. Probably less than 10 seconds.

I'm seriously looking at Rancilio's Rocky to pair with Silvia. I am aware that it is by no means the best grinder out there but for me, its a step in the right direction. I plan on using Silvia with the new grinder for the next couple of years and then upgrade to a better Espresso Machine and Grinder when my skills are worthy.

Would love some advice on whether the Rocky is the way to go or should I go in a different direction and buy the Baratza Vario or other. I'd really like to stay in the $4-500 range.

Thanks for your assistance, it is appreciated!

It sounds like you are off to a fine start. There are lots of previous posts here about using the Silvia, Rocky, Vario and just about anything else concerning espresso.

A good grinder is at least as important as the machine when the goal is great espresso. The cheapest ones that have a decent grind start around $200. At this price, their construction and durability are questionable. But you can find some very good grinders under $500. The best of the best - usually higher end, big conical, commercial grinders can run to several thousand dollars. More than a few people here own these, but probably most of the people on this site own or aspire to own a higher end grinder in the $400 - $800 range. This may sound expensive but a lot of people easily spend that in cafes at $3 - $4 a drink over a year or two

Above $200, the improvements in grind quality are more modest and you are largely paying for better built & durable equipment that is easier to use, more consistent & refined. You can pull very good shots with a Rocky, but the construction quality or ease of use isn't as good as a grinder that sells for twice the price. So Rocky or Vario? Either would be a good choice at this point. Vario if you can afford it & Rocky if the $100 price difference is hard to justify. The Vario grinder looks like an upscale appliance & is fairly compact, so seems to have a high WAF. It's also well regarded and arguably the better value.

Another approach is using commercial grinders at home. These are obviously heavy duty and durable, tend to have metal cases and be significantly larger. None of that is necessarily bad, but it may reflect a lower WAF. For myself, I'd prefer to get a used, commercial grinder that was perhaps $700 new but can often be found for $250 - $400 used. These are very durable and robust grinders and very little ever goes wrong with them. If you do decide to buy used equipment, plan to replace the grinding burrs which are about $40. But a lot of people prefer to buy new and would consider the Vario to be the ideal grinder. Buy what you can afford, the Vario being the better grinder (than Rocky) if you can fit it into your budget.

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You have a good home machine and are working on getting a proper grinder... do yourself a favor and start with fresh beans as well.

As a Silvia and Rocky owner, I'd say Wookie has pretty much nailed your options: Rocky, Vario if you can stretch for it price-wise, and if you're a little adventurous, like the idea of commercial grade grinders, etc., find a used commercial grinder (like a Mazzer) and replace the burrs.

One note -- Rocky and Vario can easily be used to grind for other brew methods (french press, drip, etc.), and then switch back quickly to espresso. A used commercial espresso grinder will not be that easy, if you can even get a good non-espresso grind out of it at all.

If you do end up going with Rocky, there are a few mods that improve it. You'll find them all by searching for 'Rocky mod' here in the forums, but to summarize:

- plug screw holes in finger guard with foam ear plugs (or remove finger guard, if you trust yourself to keep your fingers out of there)
- teflon tape around burr threads
- mod for stepless
- I don't have a doser, but if you do, I think tape on the doser vanes so they sweep clean is a standard mod
- continuous grind mod, so you don't have to press the button the whole time

None of these are required to use Rocky, but they will improve results/ease of use, and with the exception of the last one, which requires a little competence with electrical wiring (and therefore, one I have yet to do , they're all really simple too.

ChrisC wrote:One note -- Rocky and Vario can easily be used to grind for other brew methods (french press, drip, etc.), and then switch back quickly to espresso. A used commercial espresso grinder will not be that easy, if you can even get a good non-espresso grind out of it at all.

I've been using a Super Jolly for years for drip, press, vacuum, and espresso. Before that I used a Rocky in precisely the same way, in fact the operational difference between the two (other than speed and possibly grind quality) is negligible.

Fair enough. I've never used one for anything other than espresso. I guess as long as it's not a worm-drive adjustment, it's not a big deal cranking the adjustment collar around, huh? How do you find the grind quality at coarser settings? I've read comments about it not being as good from espresso grinders as from more multipurpose grinders and (obviously) dedicated bulk grinders - like, too many fines, etc. I find the Rocky pretty decent for this.

I started out with a Silvia and a similar Krups grinder, too. Since then I've upgraded to a Compak K3 Touch grinder, installed a PID, and started using a bottomless portafilter with a triple basket. Of those three upgrades, the grinder improvement was probably the most significant, but I find the triple basket essential, too. When I go back to the standard Rancilio double basket and portafilter handle, I find it much harder to get good results.

The Rancilio baskets are renowned for sucking. Almost any other basket, double or triple (or probably even single) would be a big step up.

Mike Penner wrote:Since then I've upgraded to a Compak K3 Touch grinder, installed a PID, and started using a bottomless portafilter with a triple basket.

Mike:

Thanks for the advice. Keeping in mind that I am a Rookie or Newbie.... Any recommendations and/or suggestions for a bottomless portafilter with a triple basket?

Thanks again!!

Thanks everybody for your words of wisdom, advice and the time that you have taken to reply to my original post. Still haven't decided one way or the other but somewhat leaning towards the doserless Rocky only because I'm having a tough time justifying the additional $100 or so. It's not that I don't believe that it is potentially a better product... Just not convinced that I will truly recognize the value. Thinking that $100 may be better spent on additional accessories, etc.

Thanks again for everything. Truly appreciate the assistance. If you seriously think I'm heading down the wrong road, please advise. Or if you have any additional advice and/or thoughts to add to the thread... Value the feedback.

Brad.