hello all,

I have narrowed it down and am now considering one of these 2 machines (with many other variables included in the purchase), but just wanted to get a general idea of what you all think may be better. I know both are extremely high quality machines, and they will likely last long, but from your experiences, what are the effects if the differences between with each one. Does one have better internal components than the other, is the pump on one worse than on the other, etc. i know they both have vibe pumps, but general build quality is what interests me here.

From what I know,
- 1.8 vs 1.6 boiler for cellini vs andreja
- 1400 vs 1200 for andreja vs cellini
- 52 vs 41 watt pump for andreja vs cellini
- larger drip tray for andreja
- group pressure gauge for andreja
- insulated vs nickel plated boiler for the andreja vs cellini


again, i know I can't really go wrong with either one, but just trying to get an idea as to which you may prefer and why.

Were it I, I would go for the Andreja Premium. Everything favors the Andreja Premium in your little comparison except boiler size, and 1.6L is big enough. The Andreja Premium has a larger customer base, meaning it should be much easier to seek help if and when you need some assistance with setup, with troubleshooting, with anything

But that's me . . .

One thing I don't care for in the Quickmill units is the OPV placement on the output of the HX, not the pump. It's subject to very hot, not cold water.

More cold water is injected into the HX changing the shot profile comparatively more on lungo vs ristretto shots. Note : The profile change is a theoretical objection as I've never side by side on a Quickmill vs anything else.

Group pressure gauge is nice, but not essential. Brew pressure should be adjusted on the puck. The gauge can be off by more than just a little, possibly several bar. Also the gauges are cheap and cheerful, so are only locally relevant.

IF you pull lots of shots, as at a dinner party, a big tray is a plus.

Everything else is a wash.

Thanks guys for your responses.

I also got a response from someone that works at SeattleCoffeeGear and who sells both. I asked the question on a youtube video comments page here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU-T1gr7 ... re=channel

This is what she said:

The Rockets have a brass cap on the boiler that maintains the temp longer, resulting in the ability to steam more milk. If you're making lots of cappuccinos or lattes, this would definitely be a benefit over the Andreja. Personally, I think the Rockets have a bit better engineering and build quality, plus there are some minor functional diffs (valve handles, water reservoir design) that I think are better on the Cellini. - Kat

Do you think there is any merit to this comment?

Nope.

The Seattle Coffee Gear site claims a 40% improvement in steam power due to the brass end cap. To get a 40% increase in steaming, a 40% increase in input power is necessary. The brass end cap is not in contact with any water so it's not going to make any steam. It make keep the steam boundary layer hotter for a moment, but the surface will soon be cooler.

There are other nonsensical statements like :

• Turn the espresso machine on; brewing temperature will likely be reached in about 10 minutes
• While you're waiting for the machine to warm up, you can grind and tamp your espresso in your portafilter

Wow, a recipe for sour, flat espresso.

Thanks Ian,

What about the "engineering and build quality" that she mentions?

Quickmill has very few complaints, so there's not much wrong with their engineering or build quality.

I seriously doubt whether the salesperson could give you a specific list in real engineering terms any meaningful differences that would affect either the longevity or the cup. I know people with both makes of machines and none are in a panic to change.

FWIW, several years ago the Andreja Premium and the Vibiemme Domobar Super were the last two e61s on my short list. In the end, I just liked the look of the Vibiemme more and I got a a better vibe from Stefano's Espresso Care than other vendors.

The Andreja Premium has commercial steam and hot water valves. In other words they are non compression and can not be over tightened which results in the destruction of compression type valves. If necessary they can be rebuilt by simply replacing a $3.00 rubber seat. You can see a comparison of the two type here http://www.chriscoffee.com/faq#18

The newest shipment of Andreja Premiums now are equipped with a larger access panel on the bottom of the machine. We did this because we added a new drain valve that you can attach a piece of silicon tubing to and open with your thumb and first finger to completely drain the boiler. This comes in very handy should you want to store your machine, ship it somewhere, or descale the boiler. We like the fact that we can now completely drain the boiler after bench testing prior to shipping.

The "floats" in the Andreja Premium works as follows. There are two in the tank, the first one is activated when the water level gets close to a point where you must add water. You hear a very low audible beep beep beep nothing else happens. If you continue to use the machine without adding water, after you pull approximately another 5 shots of coffee you will active a second audible alert different from the first. The second is a louder higher pitched constant tone. Contrary to what some people think the machine is NOT rendered unusable when either alert is activated. When the second alert is activated power to the heating circuit is cut but NOT the brew pump. In other words you can finish your shot and then add water.

We have a new vacuum breaker valve http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/parts/vbreakervalve that you can attach a piece of silicon tubing to the top of it and in conjunction with a T http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/isomacparts/brasstconnector you can tape into the exit side of your expansion valve and divert any moisture from the vacuum breaker valve as well as water from the expansion valve back to the drip tray.

Don't forget the Ulka Pump we spec'd for the Andreja Premium has hi temperature cut out in series with the pump to protect it from over heating and burning out.

Thanks for that Chris. I also wanted to know if the Vetrano is exactly the same, except that it just has a rotary instead of vibe pump.


That was quite an informative post.

No it is a totally different machine.
No floats because it is direct plumbed machine only.
The next time I have Vetranos made they will have the drain but the current inventory does not have the drain.
It has the same no burn steam arm and steam valve.
It has the same commercial steam and hot water valves.
It is the quietest machine on the market in my opinion.
There is no need to divert the expansion valve to the drip tray. It has a rotary pump and is set at 12 bar and will only open as a safety device.